your engine building opinion please

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Carjunky, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. Carjunky

    Carjunky Guest

    Hi everyone. I turbo'd my saturn dohc engine. Everything worked great @ 10
    psi, turned it up higher and with too much heat the engine block warped and
    is shot. Lost all compression in cylinder #1 and some in #2. So i've devised
    a plan, what are your thoughts. To buy a cheap SOHC engine for the block and
    rotating assembly (because sohc pistons yeild a 8.5:1 comppression where the
    dohc has 9.5:1). Rebuild the engine with all new bearings, rings and seals.
    And use my DOHC heads (overhauled), intake and fuel system. The heads have
    the flat faced valves so comp. would be like 8.7:1. Can anyone see any
    problems with this. I know the crank would have to be a 91-92 because of the
    crank sensor but it i got a newer engine i would just need the pcm, right?
     
    Carjunky, Feb 15, 2007
    #1
  2. Carjunky

    BläBlä Guest

    No idea what year engines you are trying to marry up but "Lane" is
    probably the most knowlagable person in this group for such things.

    8.5/7 would be much better for boosting than 9.5 but you should be using
    Forged pistons, not Hypereutectic pistons for boosted engines. So you
    might as well buy yourself some forged pistons that will bring your
    compression down. Or you could try shoehorning a supercharged 3800 and
    tranny in there.
     
    BläBlä, Feb 15, 2007
    #2
  3. No idea what year engines you are trying to marry up but "Lane" is
    I would pony up the cash and throw a 3800 s/c in there (thought about it
    actually) but for the price i would rather throw a sbc in a fiero or somthin
    of the sort. Anyway since i posted i now know any 1.9l sohc or dohc will work.
    a 91-92 needs a 91-92 pcm. a 93 -96 needs a 93 - 96 pcm. Newer than that it
    is obd2 and gets more complicated. What i really need is forged H beam rods,
    that is the first thing that breaks and limits the saturn bottom end at 275hp.
    And also with the forged you would have to get the motor balanced and theres
    another 250 bucks. I have a lead right now on a 98 sohc engine( the block is
    actually stronger than all other years). I will swap in my 92 rotation
    assembly with new bearings and dohc heads. Then i can use my existing fuel
    system and pcm.If anybody disagrees with me let me know seriously. I know
    enough about these saturns to be dangerous. But a 400 dollar low compression
    build sounds pretty nice rather than going forged.
     
    Carjunky via CarKB.com, Feb 15, 2007
    #3
  4. So does anyone know how much it should cost to get a block and head milled
    flat and checked for any problems? If my car ran with good oil pressure
    would you guys replace the pump while the engine is apart? is it o.k. to
    compression test an engine on a stand ( like with starter hooked up).
    Would you hone your own block or pay the shop? Any and all advise is good
    Thanks guys
     
    Carjunky via CarKB.com, Feb 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Carjunky

    marx404 Guest

    marx404, Feb 16, 2007
    #5
  6. I've already usedthat site to compile all my turbo info. There is nothing
    about my questions I have asked. has anyone in this forum ever taken apart
    their motor, I'm looking for assurance since i will be posting all sorts of
    useful threads on building powerhouse saturn motors, N/A or forced when all
    done with this.
     
    Carjunky via CarKB.com, Feb 16, 2007
    #6
  7. Carjunky

    Lane Guest

    Turbosaturns.net's forums used to be the best place to find any and all
    turbo-related information and experience, but they went down and disappeared
    about 6 months ago. :( Prior to that point, I had been reading them for
    several years before I started my turbo build so I can lend a few thoughts.
    Several TSN posters have used the stock block for very high boost levels and
    I have never heard of anyone warping a Saturn block. Are you sure that's
    what occurred? If so, is that a heat issue? Going with an oil cooler and a
    upgraded radiator in the future may be good insurance.
    Yes, this is exactly the route that I took. You can read about what I did
    in my website's projects section if you are interested (link is in my
    signature below). BUT, going with 10psi+ with stock pistons and rods is
    asking for it.
    You will absolutely positively have to upgrade your fuel system. A stock
    PCM / injector / fpr combo won't give you the fuel you need under boost. If
    you ran that with your prior setup, I'd say running lean may be what
    grenaded your motor. You ever dyno it and monitor fuel/air mixture while
    under boost? That would tell you for sure.
    If your motor is apart, it's best to put the proper crankshaft in it for the
    year group your car falls into. Info on engine/PCM swaps to different years
    can be found in the Ultimate Swap Guide:
    http://www.saturnspot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19927

    Yes, this is good advice.
    Now that is an enormous amount of work, but it would yield great results. A
    guy who visits my local dragstrip did this so I know it is possible.

    "Carjunky via CarKB.com"
    I always laugh when people use the words "throw" or "drop" when talking
    about a motor swap of this nature. Those who do often have never done one,
    because it is a LOT of time and expense. I went through one with a prior
    car and will never use those words. Ever. :)
    '96 was the first year of OBD2 and it doesn't fit in that category. So it
    should be 91-92, and 93-95.
    I wouldn't say that you have to. I had no plans to do so with my build and
    very few turbo'd Saturn owners have. It's a lot of cash for very little
    benefit.
    I believe it is '98 and up, and not restricted to just 1998.
    Oooh, this makes me cringe.
    From the boost level that you've stated, plus the fact that you're building
    the second motor after killing the first one, I'd strongly consider upping
    the reliability by going with forged internals and upgrading the fuel
    system - or you may find the third engine build coming sooner than it
    should.


    "Carjunky via CarKB.com"
    My local shop does quick measurements for me for no charge - should not cost
    much from most shops.
    If there is a chance that worn metal has ever gone through the pump, or your
    pump/timing cover has a lot of miles, then YES - I'd replace it if it were
    me.
    I honed mine myself with a $25 tool and instructions I found on Hastings
    website (link is on my site).

    Good luck,
    Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
     
    Lane, Feb 18, 2007
    #7
  8. Carjunky

    Private Guest

    snip
    snip

    There is a big difference between
    A: proper very expensive cylinder honing machine using lubricated and cooled
    precision stones to size and condition a cylinder bore. This machine is
    often used to increase the bore size to remove tapered cylinder wear and
    allow the use of oversize pistons. This is often the machine used to 'bore
    out' a cylinder rather than the older technique using boring bar followed by
    honing.
    B: springy, inexpensive attachment for a power drill that is more properly
    called a 'de-glazer'; which is a non-precision tool that is normally used to
    scratch a cross hatch on the cylinder wall to encourage quick ring seating.
    These tools come in a variety of styles some using mounted stones and others
    with abrasive balls on multiple springs, they do a good job when re-ringing
    but extensive cleanup should follow any use, and they do increase piston
    clearance.

    A proper engine build should involve obtaining proper pistons then precision
    honing the cylinders to properly fit the individual pistons. This fit is
    often tested by measuring the force required to withdraw a feeler gauge.
    Anything short of this is usually a simple re-ring.

    Good luck.
     
    Private, Feb 20, 2007
    #8
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