Who knew that MPG was in there somewhere? :)

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Guest, May 5, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well - 2 weeks ago I got a speeding ticket with my '06 Vue for doing 78mph.
    Where I live (LI) that's the average speed everyone does and it was just my
    unlucky day to get singled out of the pack. I've been driving since 1987
    and have never gotten a ticket before, so you figured he would have cut me a
    break, but no - he had to be a dick about it. Anyway, my feelings on that
    are not what the post is for. Here in NY, you can not accrue more than 11
    points on your license in an 18 month period and that one ticket put 6
    points on, meaning if I were to get an identical ticket within the next 18
    months, I automatically would lose my license for 6 months.

    That said, I put myself on my own probation and will not go over 60-65mph
    as it's just not worth it to arrive 5 minutes earlier. The pluses of doing
    so: A) get to use my cruise control as I'm the one everyone is passing now
    and I don't have to keep slowing down. B) the most important: I went from
    23mpg to 30mpg!!! 30mpg with a Vue....got to love it! (4cyl, 5-speed
    stick, and yes - all my driving is highway)

    Guest, May 5, 2008
  2. My suggestion. I have daughters who both have a heavy foot. Each ticket
    they have received I have taken to court.

    A good lawyer here charges $250 to $500 to handle a ticket. Also, get a
    lawyer who is of the same political party as most of the judges in your

    What the lawyer typically does, and you can do this yourself if so
    inclined, is to get a couple of continuances and at some point you hope
    the copy does not show up. No witness, no prosecution.

    I have gotten the daughters out of four tickets this way. BTW, traffic
    tickets in most instances are just a tax and nothing more. It is revenue
    generation pure and simple.

    If more people or all people fought these in court, government would
    stop this nonsense for revenue generation. It ties up the courts, keeps
    the police from stopping REAL crime and just gets the citizens ticked
    off at the police.

    Please fight the ticket.
    Hang_Traitor_Democrats, May 5, 2008
  3. Guest

    -Cronus- Guest

    SUV's and trucks take a big hit over 65mph. Cars however can show no
    change or even better the EPA estimates. Usually cars with tall gears
    like late model firebirds and my Bonneville...
    -Cronus-, May 6, 2008
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Doesn't work that way on LI though...Very strange system. They set up
    something here called a TVB (Traffic Violation Bureau) that is headed by the
    DMV to keep the regular courts freed up. There is no plea bargaining...It's
    either guilty or innocent. They have a 90% conviction rate. I've had a few
    friends try to fight it and no one has ever won. This, even in a case where
    he was picked up going 76 by radar. When he got to court, the cop presented
    a calibration sheet for the radar gun that was outdated by 6 months. The
    judge said that even though the gun was not calibrated and could have been
    off a couple of MPH, the officer's judgment of the speed was what he was
    trained for and that there was no way he could have been going the speed
    limit, so he still got the ticket. This is as one sided of a system that
    you can get and it's a pure money maker, that's all. Very unfair. You have
    to show up to court with evidence to prove your innocence instead of the
    officer trying to prove you guilty. All this and now as of 2 years ago, NYS
    instituted a "Safe Driver" surcharge. If your license ever hits 6 points
    you're automatically charged $300 + $25 for every point after. Because
    this one first ticket of mine was for 6 points, my fine is: $90 ticket +
    $50 surcharge (administrative fee) + $300 (safe driver surcharge) = $440 + 6
    points on license + increased insurance premium (god only knows what that's
    going to go up to)

    It is a EXTREMELY unfair system, especially for a first time offender. The
    only "Loophole" is that you plead "not guilty" and delay the date as long as
    you can, then right before your date you can change your plea.. As the
    points apply from the date of the incident, and not the date of conviction,
    if you can drag the date 4-6 months, that 4-6 months of additional clean
    license, less insurance and you already knocked that time off your 18 month
    total. The cop ALWAYS shows up at court, as they have 2 times to get there.
    You take a day off from work and the cop doesn't show, the date gets
    rescheduled. As the cop gets paid overtime for court appearances, he is
    always there one of the two times. Officers here make so much $$ and

    To see what I mean about the system:

    To see what the cops salary and benefits:

    Guest, May 6, 2008
  5. I suspect, the conviction rate is high because most do not use a lawyer.
    Second, I know here if the attorney thinks the judge will be a problem,
    they just ask for a jury trial. You know, what you are entitled to by
    the US Constitution. No one wants to do that for a traffic ticket.

    I would say that the conviction rate is high here to. Because I have
    seen people try to do this themselves and they are not trained as a
    attorney so they lose. Get an attorney no matter where you live.

    When you consider the increase in car insurance you will get from the
    ticket, the money is better spent getting an attorney.

    I am not a lawyer, but seems to me in the case you cited below, I would
    file for an appeal. A reasonable judge would have thrown out that case.
    The gun is out of calibration and the judge still convicts on what the
    officer "thinks" the guy was traveling......Woooooo, Woooooo....all
    aboard the legal Railroad.

    Why people still live in the NY area is beyond me. High cost of living
    and it looks like the government is just out to get your money even if
    it means violating the basic rights of the Constitution. Time to get out
    of Dodge.
    Hang_Traitor_Democrats, May 6, 2008
  6. Guest

    Oppie Guest

    Many years ago, right before Christmas, I got a ticket for passing a stopped
    school bus ($200 at the time). I still maintain that I turned off the main
    road before I overtook the bus. Am certain that it was just a money grab to
    fund holiday bonuses since the cop listened to my explanation and said very
    sorry but...wrote the ticket anyway.
    A buddy with an uncle 'on the job' told me to send in the ticket requesting
    a trial and requesting a deposition. By law (and I don't know if this is
    still the case), a requested deposition has to be received no closer than 30
    days before trial. Usually my city has long waits for traffic court cases
    but this one came up in two weeks <BEG>
    I go into court and wait for my case to be called. The cases prior to mine
    make it very evident that this is the 'hanging judge' I am to appear before
    <holy crap!!>
    Finally they call my case, the cop is there and the judge starts. I ask if
    the court is in possession of the requested deposition. Judge looks at his
    papers, then at the bailiff and says, "was Mr. O. given his deposition when
    he arrived in court." Bailiff looks flustered but comes over and hands me my
    deposition. Judge starts again and I interrupt, "your honor, I was under the
    impression that a requested deposition was to be received 30 days before
    trial." Judge now looks extremely pissed off and I figure that I had really
    screwed up big time and was going to jail now. He looks down at his papers
    and starts writing. Looks up at me with daggers in his eyes and says, to my
    overwhelming relief, "case dismissed for untimely rendering of deposition."
    I'd rather be proved right than pull a legal maneuver but this was the right
    way to go.
    Oppie, May 6, 2008
  7. Guest

    SMS Guest

    What happens here (Silicon Valley) with moving violations is very
    different apparently then in your area, at least if it's a city police
    force. Unlike the highway patrol, the cop will usually show up in court
    (they get paid overtime for doing so), and there are no continuances,
    lawyer or not. The cop will read a prepared statement from some index
    cards (probably provided by a clerk in the police department). You will
    be able to make a statement too, but the judge will not allow you to
    introduce any evidence (photographs, etc). You will be found guilty, and
    perhaps get a reduced fine, but lose your option for traffic school to
    keep the ticket off your record.

    The last time I went to traffic court, of all the appeals by people with
    lawyers, I saw only one person succeed. He got out of an open container
    ticket because he was in a private parking lot, not on a public street.
    The cop needs to be really stupid to give a ticket that the judge won't

    However I agree with you that if everyone started fighting, they'd have
    to change the system. Just be careful what you wish for though, as they
    might find a way to change it for the worse.
    SMS, May 7, 2008
  8. It is difficult to dispute what you are saying, but I find it hard to
    believe they do not allow continuances or permit evidence from being
    introduced. Those are basic trial rights.

    But then again, you are living in the Peoples' Republic of California.

    It's a tax. At least they allow you to go to traffic school to keep it
    off your record. We don't have that option here. You win, it is off your
    record, lose and it is on your record.

    I actually prefer our system as it works for me.
    Hang_Traitor_Democrats, May 7, 2008
  9. Guest

    SMS Guest

    I don't even know if there's a way to appeal. I don't really know about
    continuances, so I shouldn't have said there are none, though I never
    saw anyone try, and never saw a lawyer there without a client, asking
    for a continuance. If the cop doesn't show you win, and if he does show,
    you'd better be ready with your case. It's actually your second
    appearance, because the first appearance is solely to plead guilty or
    not guilty (really only not guilty, since if you're guilty you just pay
    the fine and don't have to show up.

    I foolishly tried to fight a speeding ticket once. I thought I had a
    great case. The speed limit went from 45 MPH to 25 MPH and the cop hid
    just past the 25 MPH sign, not even far enough for you to coast down to
    a slower speed, you'd have to brake hard when you see the sign. I had
    pictures of where the speed limit signs were, I had pictures of where
    the cop was, but the judge wouldn't even look at them. Remember, it's
    all collusion to extract money from you. I was on my way to the UPS
    office, and I was talking to the clerk about the ticket, and she told me
    that that motorcycle cop often got their customers and truck drivers for
    speeding in that exact spot, until the drivers learn about the speed
    trap. It's even on a web site about speed traps, and I didn't put it
    there! "http://www.copspy.com/CA/444-sunnyvale.html"
    I think you can only go to traffic school once every two years. At least
    you can take it online now.
    SMS, May 7, 2008
  10. Guest

    DLR Guest

    Federal rights in criminal matters are very different issues than state procedures on civil issues. These things vary greatly state by state. Very greatly.

    Way back when a friend in Toronto told me how many drunks they'd pickup for DWI would yell for their Miranda rights, 1 phone call, etc... The police would tell them they were watching the wrong TV shows and not paying attention when in grade school. :)

    DLR, May 7, 2008
  11. Guest

    PerfectReign Guest



    That is awful!!

    Of the thre tickets I've had in the past 22 years, I've gone to court on two
    of them. Both times, the officer didn't show up and the case was dismissed.
    The third one was written down wrong as a fix-it ticket (I didn't have my
    lights on.) and written off.

    At last, a reason to like California. :p
    PerfectReign, May 7, 2008
  12. To make sure we stay within the spirit of the newsgroup, I am sure
    everyone was driving a Saturn in the examples cited - right?

    Hang_Traitor_Democrats, May 7, 2008
  13. Guest

    DLR Guest

    Well my son is getting a lesson in civics with his first ticket in his 98 SL2. $200 and 8 to 10 hours missing in his and my life. :)

    DLR, May 7, 2008
  14. Guest

    satyr Guest

    The police are right in this case. Not having you Miranda rights read
    to you is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. It just means that any
    statements you might make are inadmissible as evidence. In many cases
    the cops have enough evidence without your statement so they don't
    give a rat's ass what you say and they don't bother to read you your
    satyr, May 8, 2008
  15. Guest

    PerfectReign Guest

    What does that have to do with beer?
    PerfectReign, May 8, 2008
  16. Guest

    DLR Guest


    Miranda doesn't cross the border. Or the 1st amendment. Or most anything else you see on a police or criminal lawyer show based in the US. But most of Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, and Windsor, plus a few other places see way more US TV than Canadian much to the consternation of the local cultural police. ;)

    DLR, May 8, 2008
  17. Guest

    Oppie Guest

    Dunno but at this point, beer is cheaper per liter than gas. If only my lil'
    saturn would run on beer....
    Oppie, May 8, 2008
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I wish my Saturn ran on Methane....Just think - You'd stop at Taco Bell to
    fill up! Family Trip? No prob...Get the Grande Meal and get clear-cross

    Guest, May 9, 2008
  19. Guest

    nick hull Guest

    Best is to drive an invisible car. I did that for a long time, not sure
    why the car was invisible but I was NEVER stopped. Had cars in front
    and behind pulled over and the cops ignored me. Drove thru stop signs
    when there were multiple cruisers; they didn't see me. I drove that car
    until it wore out, I was afraid to get another because I didn't know WHY
    the cops couldn't see me.

    Maybe it was my short hair or maybe it was the "Support your Local
    Police" stickers I always had on BOTH bumpers ?

    Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
    nick hull, May 31, 2008
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