water in the tranny fluid

T

thealmightyandpowerfuldave

Usenet Archive
Joined
May 28, 2005
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
i have a 95 sc2, and lately it had been shifting hard, and not wanting to shift into 3rd. it would either stick, or try to force itself into 3rd and "give up" (so i'd be going down the highway at 65mph while it sticks in 2nd because it wouldnt go to 3rd), or it would do 1st, 2nd, and 4th (only when the service engine light is on). most of the time if it decides to shift, it would jerk or "pop" in 3rd anyway. im having problems with reverse too. it hesitates to shift. then when it does finally shift after starting to hit the gas, it kind of does a big "kachunk" dype of thing and throws you around a bit. my brother looked at the fluid and it had a little bit of a foam to it. he says thats due to water being in the fluid. could this be the cause of the problems? how do i fix this problem, and what would be causing it? thanks.

dave
 
It's good that you posted the year and model, but this is just not enough information to help.

Automatic (I presume) or manual transmission? Mileage? Maintenance history? When was the fluid last changed? Is the fluid possibly overfilled (overfilling causes the fluid to whip up into a foam as you are experiencing)? Any trouble codes (service engine light) shown? Better or worse when hot or cold out? Does this shifting problem only happen after vehicle has been running for a while or all the time repeatably?

Bob

message
 
sorry about that. it is in fact an automatic, 133000 miles. as for maintenance history, i havent a clue. i've only had the car for about a month and a half. runs pretty good, and was kept pretty clean. but that doesnt really matter too much. same thing with the fluid. i dont have a clue when that was changed. when i get a spare moment and some spare cash, i had planed on taking it to get flushed out, and have the filter changes. as for overfilled, i dont believe it is. i think it is right on the full line. the service engine light has come on a few times. when that happens, it usually skips 3rd gear and goes right to either 4th, or back to 2nd. and, i dont think it matters weather its hot, cold, or just right. it shifts like crap in all climated, and all engine temps. and it doesnt stop. it always shifts like crap. usually in 3rd. thats really about it. if i restart the car, things go back to "normal" for a bit, then it eventually screws up again. and every once in a great while, things will run smoothly. needless to say, this mess has me all confused. any ideas?
thanks in advance.

dave
 
Drain the current fluid and change the spin on transmission filter . This takes all of 5-10 minutes and requires almost no special tools. It is actually easier than changing the oil since the filter is much easier to access.

Replace the fluid with the correct type. Any brand should be fine as long as it says Dexron III for GM vehicles. You usually can drain about 4 quarts. This is about half of the systems capacity. Replace the filter. Make sure you get the old O-ring gasket off and the new one is lubricated before you spin it on. make sure it is tight, but not overly tight or you won't get it off later very easily. Fill fluid, but make sure not to overfill.

Drive the vehicle and see if it has improved . You can then repeat the process in about 250 or so miles. If you want to save the cost of the trans filter the second time around, which is about $15 or so as I recall, then just remove and dump old fluid from it and re-use. Replacing the fluid the second time will get another 50% but half will be the new fluid, so this process done twice will get about 75% of the original fluid out. It will be cheaper than paying to power flush and takes little effort. At least then you will know what is in the trans and this could alleviate your symptoms.

There is also a frequent problem with the valve body clogging on that transmission, especially if the fluid and filter don't get serviced every 30K or so miles. There is a procedure that involves letting the car idle in reverse with the parking brake applied for 30 minutes. I'd suggest you do this between the first and second changes. The pressure builds in reverse and helps to backflush the valve body. Try all this and then post your results before any further recommendations can be made.

Good luck!

Bob

message
 
Water could not get in trany unless some one put it there on purpose or acidently, Check your conectors on computer and trany!
 
That was my thinking also... that is why I suggested he change the fluid. As he has no maintenance history, there could be almost anything in there from previous owners. I'd start with the fresh fluid to see how it operates, then, if it still is having problems with 3rd gear, I'd suspect the 3rd gear shift solenoid. I posted a procedure to check these using an ohm meter a few months back and it is likely in the Google archives.

Bob
 
Hello bob shuman i found your post from mar 20 sounds like you know what you were doing in the transmision, i have rebuilt a couple of the older GM transmisions, keep up the good work !

George
 
hey
thanks for all the info. i think i'll try that tomorrow. just on a side note. i started the car yesterday morning and while it was in park, it vibrated really really bad and had a weird grinding sound. all went away once i shifted into drive. i started it today, and all was fine until i put it in reverse. it did the same thing. that may be in connection with the fluid, so we'll see. i really hope the tranny isnt dying already, ive only had the car for a month and a half. thanks again for all the help. i'll post results after a bit.

dave
 
Thanks for the complement. I have never rebuilt any transmissions and can say I've only had one transmission fail in my 30 years of driving. It was a 1990 Chrysler Minivan and this was the first year they used the "electronic" transmission. I've learned to change the fluid and filter every 30K or so and have never had any problems since. With the Saturn TAAT, this is especially easy. As for replacing the bad solenoid, this too was not particularly difficult as the top cover access design made doing the job pretty straightforward. I posted the diagnostic procedure to try to help others who may have similar transmission problems. The thing that absolutely amazed me was that the local highly rated independent transmission place didn't know how to do this and only used their computer to read the diagnostic error codes (there were none in our case).

Thanks again . I hope the OP is able to get their transmission working properly. The real issue here is not knowing the maintenance history. For all we know, someone may have put brake fluid or antifreeze in the transmission case.

Bob
 
i changed the fluid today. i dont think it has ever been changed. the filter had rust bubbles on it, and the fluid was brown. it smelled like really bad rusty water. so, i did all that, and i guess we'll see the results. also, the thing i posted about the vibration. it appears that i have a bad motor mount. i mean, its pretty well gone. could that be a possible cause of the transmission problems? thanks again.

dave
 
Which motor mount? The top one (Torque Axis Mount?) These seem to go bad with time. Most often it is from the rubber shrinking under load and getting a large gap between the steel frame and the engine mount. This leads to slamming when the transmission shifts between gears. It is very easy to replace and the procedure has been covered here and in the Saturn forum before so Google for more info. The key is to use a jack to support the oil pan using some wood or a telephone book to distribute the weight evenly on the pan surface. You need this to raise the engine back up to bolt the mount in place.

As to this causing your 3rd gear problem, I doubt it since you indicated it won't go into gear at all. On the transmission fluid, it is very important that you change the filter as well but you did not mention if this was done. As I indicated previously, after you have changed the fluid and filter, you can try the valve body cleaning procedure in the Saturn Forum (search on Wolfman's "Reverse Slam Cure"). This is basically adding your favorite transmission additive, then putting the vehicle into reverse and letting it idle for exactly 30 minutes with the parking brake set and while you are inside the vehicle. (It probably would not hurt to block the wheels as well, although this is strictly an added safety precaution.) After 30 minutes, stop the vehicle, and then drain the fluid again. In your case since fluid looked so bad, I'd also remove the spin on filter and dump the fluid from there too, then re-attach, tighten, and re-fill to full (do not overfill) with Dexron III fluid again.

If this doesn't do the trick, you can try measuring resistance of the 5 transmission solenoids using the procedure I posted in March. All solenoids should measure identical resistance somewhere between 4 and 8 ohms if I recall correctly. If you get one that is way out of line (0 ohms or 2K ohms for instance, then you found your problem. If they all measure the same, then the solenoids are likely all good so it will be time to visit a good transmission service place. Make sure you tell them you just changed the fluid and what the old fluid looked and smelled like as this will be important to help them diagnose your problem. Good luck and remember to change that fluid and filter about 30K or so down the road!

Bob
 
@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>,
says...
i changed the fluid today. i dont think it has ever been changed. the filter had rust bubbles on it, and the fluid was brown. it smelled like really bad rusty water. so, i did all that, and i guess we'll see the results. also, the thing i posted about the vibration. it appears that i have a bad motor mount. i mean, its pretty well gone. could that be a possible cause of the transmission problems? thanks again.

dave
Click to expand...

The upper torsion mount is likely the one your talking about I'm guessing. Those do need to be replaced every 100k miles it seems. If your trans fluid is brown and smells that usually means its burnt and past its life. If there is a few bubbles on the dip stick that isnt a problem. If it is covered in foam then it is likely over filled. You should be parked on level ground, with the engine running, and the transmission should be warmed up before you check the level...unless there is a cold mark on the dipstick.

If I were you I would take a good look at the spark plugs and wires. People have a bad habit of ignoring those things and that could cause your car to run rough if one wire was shot. The plugs should be 100k plugs and theres a chance someone skipped the service on those.
 
yup. thats the motor mount. my dad had that problem with his saturn too. it looks pretty easy to fix. as for all the rest of the things for the tranny, thanks. i've almost run the 250 miles you said to do, so i'll probably start doing the rest of that this weekend. i'll try too keep posted of results. thanks again.

dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest threads

Back
Top