Vue 2004, V4 5-speed Manual---Opinions?

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MSEagan

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My husband and I test drove a Vue today. We took it on the highway and it seemed to have good power even though it was only a V4, 5-speed. So, I am wondering if there are any red flags with this car that any of you know of? We could go to the V6 FWD automatic, but we may want to buy another car (possibly an Ion 2, 2004), and the V4 manual makes this option much more affordable. We also like the better fuel economy. Thanks for any help.
 
I've heard good stuff about the Ecotech engine - and you can't go wrong with a traditional manual transmission either.

Small note: It's actually an I4 (inline 4, meaning the 4 cylinders are in a row). A bazillion years ago Saab made a V4 with dual exhaust, pretty neat.
 
I've heard good stuff about the Ecotech engine - and you can't go wrong with a traditional manual transmission either.
Click to expand...

Though the ecotec is a good engine I wouldnt get a suv or van or anything larger than a L300 with a 4 cylinder. Small displacement engines tend to be too overworked to last or get good fuel mileage in big vehicles. If one desides on a ecotec in a vue a manual is a must.
Small note: It's actually an I4 (inline 4, meaning the 4 cylinders are in a row). A bazillion years ago Saab made a V4 with dual exhaust, pretty neat.
Click to expand...

V4's are rare, usually if its not inline its horizontally opposed. Eh... The weirdest engine i've seen was a V5. I think audi makes that.
 
Blah said:
The weirdest engine i've seen was a V5. I think audi makes that.
Click to expand...

How do you 'V' a five banger? I know there are straight 5's but I'm interested in how a V5 is put together.

Cheers!

Glomis
 
How do you 'V' a five banger? I know there are straight 5's but I'm interested in how a V5 is put together.

Cheers!

Glomis
Click to expand...

Very very carefully

Honda
http://www.bikernet.co.za/library/motogp2002/images/honda-2.jpg

VW
http://www.semler.dk/press/pressimages/1029-c00_6534_small.jpg

You just have to change the seperation in the crank journals and the crank weights. The pistons no doubt dont share any crank journals so they can be spaced out in what ever maner to make them the engine smooth. Border line silly mostly.
 
I can't speak for the Saturn, but I have a Ford Escape with a 2.0 litre 4 with 5 speed trans, and it has plenty of power for moving the vehicle. I also just returned from a 4500 mile vacation circuit and got 27.8 MPG average over the distance. It has over 75,000 miles so far. So, unless you're into heavy duty towing or need extra power to get to the gas stations quicker (and more often), I wouldn't worry about a 4 cyl/5 speed combo on a vehicle like the Vue. I've also read that the automatic CVT option on the Saturn is pretty efficient compared to a normal automatic. I'm waiting for a few more years to see how they hold up before getting one, though.

JPH
 
That Honda pic is interesting. I just assumed that having three pistons on one side and two on the other would unbalance the engine. I guess there must be some correction somewhere. How does the engine compensate - I'm guessing the firing order? And if that is so, then wouldn't the pistons on the '2' side get more strokes than those on the '3' side?

And thanks again for those pics!

Cheers!

Glomis
 
That Honda pic is interesting. I just assumed that having three pistons on one side and two on the other would unbalance the engine. I guess there must be some correction somewhere. How does the engine compensate - I'm guessing the firing order? And if that is so, then wouldn't the pistons on the '2' side get more strokes than those on the '3' side?
Click to expand...

No its the same crank, same number of rotations no piston fires more than any other. It all has to do with balance. Its not like a v6 with just 1 cylinders wacked off. There is no dead spot because the all the pistons are spaced evenly apart in a 360 deg circle. The compensation comes with the way the crank is balanced. Its no different than how a inline 5 would work. The only reason its in a v5 configuration is to save space so it can fit under the hoods of small cars. 4 pistons long is as big as you can go when a engine is mounted transversely. An inline 5 or 6 would never fit in something the size of a cavalier.
 
Ok...I think I've got it now. Seems like an awfully complicated design process though!

Blah blah
 
Hmmm...never thought of that! I'll try to put a little more thought into my comments, lest I make a silly one again! :-)

Cheers!
 
Jonnie said:
I've heard good stuff about the Ecotech engine - and you can't go wrong with a traditional manual transmission either.

Small note: It's actually an I4 (inline 4, meaning the 4 cylinders are in a row). A bazillion years ago Saab made a V4 with dual exhaust, pretty neat.
Click to expand...

The V-4s Saab sold were actually a Ford engine. It is a distant relative of the German built V-6s currently sold in Ranger and Explorers. The engine's origins go back to a Ford front wheel drive car program started in the early 60's. The engine design was transferred to Germany and was used in German Fords for many years. The Ford German V-6 was developed from this V-4. The original V-4 was 1600 cc (1.6L). The V-6s started out at 2.4L, then 2.6L, 2.8L, 2.9L, and finally 4.0L. The ultimate (so far at least) member of the family is the 4.0L SOHC V-6 currently sold in Ford Explorers and Rangers. The only engine family with a longer and more sucessful life than I can think of is the Small Block Chevy V-8. I have only ever worked on one of the Ford V-4s - it was an industrial engine powering a Bobcat loader. Before they adopted the Ford V-4, Saabs used a 3 cylinder two-stroke engine. That engine really sounded weird. After the Ford V-4, Saab used an inline 4 cylinder engine based on a British Leyland design (but they ended up doing their own assembly of the engine).

V-4s have also been used in Lancias (a very narrow V-4 that was interesting) and motorcycles. Ford actually produced two completely different V-4s in Europe - one English, 1.6L and 2L (which I know nothing about) and one German, 1.6L which is the one used by Saab. Both of the Ford V-4s included a balance shaft to smooth them out.

see http://www.free-definition.com/V4.html

Regards,

Ed White
 
Blah said:
Though the ecotec is a good engine I wouldnt get a suv or van or anything larger than a L300 with a 4 cylinder. Small displacement engines tend to be too overworked to last or get good fuel mileage in big vehicles. If one desides on a ecotec in a vue a manual is a must.
Click to expand...

So far (16,000 miles), I am very satisfied with my 4
cylinder VTi Vue. I might not win any races at a drag strip, but I easily keep up with traffic either in town or on the Interstate. In town mileage has been in the 21-23 mpg range. Interstate mileage has been in the 27-30 mpg range. In road tests, the 4 cylinder with the VTi transmission actually out accelerated the 5 speed manual Vues. Based on my test drives, I believe this to be true. The 5 speed does provide slightly better fuel economy. Reliability of the VTi is definitely suspect, although mine has been fine since it was reprogrammed.
V4's are rare, usually if its not inline its horizontally opposed. Eh... The weirdest engine i've seen was a V5. I think audi makes that.
Click to expand...

This Audi engine has a real narrow "V" (15 degrees). By angling the cylinders slighlty you can make the engine shorter - a good thing for a front wheel drive car. See http://www.vwfixx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20918 - picture at the bottom of the page.

Regards,

Ed White
 
Glomis said:
How do you 'V' a five banger? I know there are straight 5's but I'm interested in how a V5 is put together.
Click to expand...

See http://www.vwfixx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20918 picture at the bottom of the page. The cylinders are only angle 6.5 grees from the centerline (total "V" angle of 15 degrees). This allows the cylinders to be closer together and reduces the overall lenght of the engine. There is only one head, so calling it a "V" engine is a little bit of a stretch.

Regards,

Ed White
 
Blah said:
Very very carefully

Honda
http://www.bikernet.co.za/library/motogp2002/images/honda-2.jpg

VW
http://www.semler.dk/press/pressimages/1029-c00_6534_small.jpg

You just have to change the seperation in the crank journals and the crank weights. The pistons no doubt dont share any crank journals so they can be spaced out in what ever maner to make them the engine smooth. Border line silly mostly.
Click to expand...

The Honda engine is a legitamate V-5. The Audi engine is really just a sort of twisted in-line engine. Audi alternately angled the cylinders so they can pack them together tighter. The Audi engine only has one head, so it is hard to call it a "V" engine in my mind. Lancia did a 4 cylinder like this for many years. At one time Oldsmobile was palanning to build a V-5 DIESEL engine (see http://members.tripod.com/~A350Diesel/v5.html). Program died when people figured out the Oldsmobile diesel V-8 was junk.

Regards,

Ed White
 
I have the same (inline) 4 cyl , 5 speed manual Vue. Actually, the acceleration is pretty lousy in my humble opinion. My old '01 SW2 with a 5-speed was much faster. I drive in Austin, TX. stop-and-go traffic quite often and I need to turn off the A/C to accelerate decently in the Vue. Once I'm up to speed, no problems. I get about 24 to 25.5 mpg, with about 2600 miles on it so far. Aside from the acceleration, it's a comfortable and fun-to-drive car. If you buy this car with a VTi, insist that you get the 75k mile warranty on the VTi transmission.
 
I have the same (inline) 4 cyl , 5 speed manual Vue. Actually, the acceleration is pretty lousy in my humble opinion. My old '01 SW2 with a 5-speed was much faster. I drive in Austin, TX. stop-and-go traffic quite often and I need to turn off the A/C to accelerate decently in the Vue. Once I'm up to speed, no problems. I get about 24 to 25.5 mpg, with about 2600 miles on it so far. Aside from the acceleration, it's a comfortable and fun-to-drive car. If you buy this car with a VTi, insist that you get the 75k mile warranty on the VTi transmission.
 
flatline said:
I have the same (inline) 4 cyl , 5 speed manual Vue. Actually, the acceleration is pretty lousy in my humble opinion. My old '01 SW2 with a 5-speed was much faster. I drive in Austin, TX. stop-and-go traffic quite often and I need to turn off the A/C to accelerate decently in the Vue. Once I'm up to speed, no problems. I get about 24 to 25.5 mpg, with about 2600 miles on it so far. Aside from the acceleration, it's a comfortable and fun-to-drive car. If you buy this car with a VTi, insist that you get the 75k mile warranty on the VTi transmission.
Click to expand...

All of us lucky pre 2004 VTi owners got the 75k warranty.

Ed
 
We just bought the 5-speed V4 and so far like it, but what is VTi?

Marianne
 
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