Used SW2 or SW1; Buying advice

I am thinking about looking for a good used Saturn wagon. I really
like the LW2 but that may not be in my budget and the SW should get
better gas milage.

I have a fair amount of car buying experience but what special problems
should I be aware of in searching for a SW wagon?

I recall that early Saturns had some serious problems with oil
consumption. What years was this a problem? I am hoping to find a
1997 or later car. Was the problem fixed and if so by what model year?

I definitely want a 5 speed but I have heard of manual transmissions
problems. Is this true and if so what years are best/worst?

I love the plastic body panels but do Saturns have any corrosion issues
with their space frames? If so, how do I check?

How long do the timing chains last? Are they difficult/expensive to
repair?

How about clutches?

Did Saturn offer any type of a sport suspenion on the SW?

What type of fuel economy are people getting on their SW1s or SW2s?

I notice a fair variation in published fuel economy for SWs, what years
are best? I'd like to get an SW2 if the economy doesn't suffer too
muuch.

Can I expect a good 200,000 miles out of a well maintained SW with out
major problems?

What size wheels and tires do the SWs use?

What can I expect to pay for a well maintained SW2 with about 75Kmi?

Thanks in advace,

Mike

 

Hoza, try limiting your questions in one post to under five million, then
ppl will have time to better answer them, k? Heres some quick answers:

I recall that early Saturns had some serious problems with oil
consumption. What years was this a problem? I am hoping to find a
1997 or later car. Was the problem fixed and if so by what model year?

DOHC had some consumption issues, but not all, ask the orig. owner.

I definitely want a 5 speed but I have heard of manual transmissions
problems. Is this true and if so what years are best/worst?

Good luck finding a man trand SW2, but they are out there. No yr pref, not
aware of problems with man trans except operator error.

I love the plastic body panels but do Saturns have any corrosion issues
with their space frames? If so, how do I check?

Never seen a spaceframe rust, but up north where salt is on roads, check
under the car on the frame and under the hood and door joints. Saturns are
rustproofed in the factory.

How long do the timing chains last? Are they difficult/expensive to
repair?

Depending on the orig owner, but the stainless timing chain is designed to
last 100+ K miles, however, it is very rare that it will ever need
replacing, we have 3 s-cars over 10K on orig chains, no probs.

How about clutches?

How about them Mets? Whats your question? Its a clutch they last as long as
clutches do when you drive normal.

Did Saturn offer any type of a sport suspenion on the SW?

SW1 = touring standard suspension, SW2 = sport tuned suspension, bigger sway
bar.

What type of fuel economy are people getting on their SW1s or SW2s?

25 mpg up to 40 depending on the driver and man or auto trans.

I notice a fair variation in published fuel economy for SWs, what years
are best? I'd like to get an SW2 if the economy doesn't suffer too
muuch.

same engine all years. 1.9L 100 or 124 hp. Gain, depends on the driver.

Can I expect a good 200,000 miles out of a well maintained SW with out
major problems?

Yes, if you also maintain it well.

What size wheels and tires do the SWs use?

14" on 1's 15" on 2's. Rims or alloys.

What can I expect to pay for a well maintained SW2 with about 75Kmi?

Search the internet and quit asking so many questions. <jk> but really, you
can find all the answers on the web. www.kbb.com is a good start.

Happy car shopping and enjoy you SW when you get it!
marx404

 

Thanks for the reply marx404,

I could use a bit more information here. If the engine had issues I
assume they are not the fault of the owner. Is the oil consumption
issue a problem that, if it strikes, will occur early in the engine's
life and if one buy's a good SW2 then one can expect normal oil
consumption through the life of the engine? I'll be looking at cars
with > 50Kmi [of course this all assumes specified maintenance
throughout the life of the engine] Problems occuring in such a manner
could be due to a quality control problem. Or are you saying that SW2s
have a design flaw which causes a higher than normal oil control
failure rate and that any SW2 will have a higher than normal chance for
developing a problem at some time regardless of maintenance? Or will
above normal maintenance prevent the problem from occuring at all? For
example, certain Toyota's have a problem with the development with
sludge in the oil (even when precsribed oil changes are followed),
however 5Kmi change intervals with synthetic motor can prevent the
sludge problem.

Is that too many questions in one question? Oh well, you get the gist
of what I'm trying to ask.

I thought by going for something made in 1997 or later that oil problem
would have been rectified. It seems that Saturn has done many things
well and I am somewhat stunned that they couldn't (or chose not to)
engineer the problem out. I have heard that changes were made in model
year 2000, do you know if the problem was ever fixed?

Maybe an SW1 is a better choice.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

IMHO the SW1 body type (with manual transmission) is a very good car and
(since they are not available new) are well worth a serious search effort to
find a good one. Most SW owners know how usable these cars are and they
tend not to sell them. IMHO a good one will provide much more value than
their market price. Avoid any car that has collision history.

Search Google groups for 'cracked cylinder head' which was a problem due to
a casting flaw in some cars in the mid 90s (95-97?) Also search
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/archive/index.php/

Make sure to have a complete insection done on the front end to ensure that
the steering and suspension and subframe is not bent and has not suffered a
collision or hard curb or pothole strike.

I do not like what I have read about the dual cam engines and decided
against buying them new and because of the likelyhood that they have been
driven in a 'spirited' manner would never consider purchasing one used.

IMHO 'spirited driving' and poor maintenance and long oil change intervals
are the cause of most of the reports of excessive oil consumtion and timing
chain wear.

IMHO, Look for a low milage SW1 driven by an older person whose main driving
goal was good fuel economy. These engines really like low and medium engine
speed operation. A complete maintenance and fuel and oil record will often
indicate a careful owner and will be a good indication of a desirable car.

I have heard of (mostly low milage) problems with an internal nut? failing
and allowing a shaft to contact the case? and causing very serious damage.
Do a Google groups search and search.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/archive/index.php/

Do a complete and careful corrosion inspection.

IMHO they last the service life of the engine, IF the engine receives good
maintenance and regular oil changes (at 3-4,000 mi intervals) and is not
driven hard before warmup or in an overly 'spirited' manner. The timing
chain should be replaced at any major rebuild or valve job.

Totally dependant on operator skill and style. My wife has 160,000 mi on
original clutch which is still working perfectly but others here are on
their third clutch with the same milage, they also report high oil
consumption problems!

Our SW1s both have averaged 6.8 lt/100km or 42 mi/imp.gal. in the total life
of the cars in mixed but mostly highway use in Canadian climate.

SW2 cars are heavier by ~70 lbs and cruise at ~450 rpm higher RPM. AFAIK,
You can expect much higher fuel consumption from a dual cam and in a used
car I would also expect much higher oil consumption. A cylinder head
rebuild will also cost more.

There are many reports of owners getting well over 300,000 mi and a few
reports of close to 500,000 mi.

IMHO you will get better value and service from a good SW1. I would be
prepared to pay MORE for an SW1, but the market will usually price a dual
cam higher because of image and the higher initial price.. I would not buy
an auto trans car and a twin cam would have to be a steal to get my
interest.

Good luck, YMMV

 

My 1998 SW2 generally burns about a quart per 3K miles -- nothing out of
the ordinary for older cars.

122K miles on my original clutch and it's in fine shape.

Roughly 26 mpg city, 34 highway.

Can't say for sure re: the SW1. The SW2 came stock with P185/65R15
tires, S speed rated, and 15" diameter, 6" wide, 40mm offset steel
wheels. I can tell you (just having done it myself) that P215/50R16
tires on 16" diameter, 7" wide, 42mm offset wheels will fit the car
without affecting speedo/odometer accuracy at all (the 0.04% difference
is negligible), although if you do that, you might want to avoid going
all the way to the steering lock in a tight parking lot type situation.

Can't say for 75K miles, but I got mine with 117K on it for less than
$3,000.

--
Larry Harvilla
e-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org
blog-aliciousness: http://www.phatpage.org/news/

also visit: http://www.phatpage.org/highways.html
(in progress)

 

-> I am thinking about looking for a good used Saturn wagon. I really
-> like the LW2 but that may not be in my budget and the SW should get
-> better gas milage.
->
-> I have a fair amount of car buying experience but what special problems
-> should I be aware of in searching for a SW wagon?
->
-> I recall that early Saturns had some serious problems with oil
-> consumption. What years was this a problem? I am hoping to find a
-> 1997 or later car. Was the problem fixed and if so by what model year?
->
-> I definitely want a 5 speed but I have heard of manual transmissions
-> problems. Is this true and if so what years are best/worst?

I have a 97 SW1, 5 speed. Not long ago the gear shift handle broke loose
from the cables and it cost me about $350.00 to repair it, iirc. Had to
take it to the Saturn dealer. No one else could touch it.

Mine is very low mileage (just went over 30,000 last week). Higher mileage
vehicles may have problems I haven't yet experienced.

-> I love the plastic body panels but do Saturns have any corrosion issues
-> with their space frames? If so, how do I check?
->
-> How long do the timing chains last? Are they difficult/expensive to
-> repair?
->
-> How about clutches?
->
-> Did Saturn offer any type of a sport suspenion on the SW?
->
-> What type of fuel economy are people getting on their SW1s or SW2s?

I get about 30 mpg combined city/highway, but I'm a conservative driver.

-> I notice a fair variation in published fuel economy for SWs, what years
-> are best? I'd like to get an SW2 if the economy doesn't suffer too
-> muuch.
->
-> Can I expect a good 200,000 miles out of a well maintained SW with out
-> major problems?
->
-> What size wheels and tires do the SWs use?
->
-> What can I expect to pay for a well maintained SW2 with about 75Kmi?

--
8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail)
~~~~~~
"I reserve the absolute right to be smarter
today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/
http://www.intergnat.com/pussygames/

 

Mike - I drive a 1998 Saturn SW2. I have kept it well maintained ..
drove 400 miles last August on 1 tank of gas (Roseburg, OR to Reno). It
has 55,000 miles on it now and I am sure it will go another 55,000....
then another 55,000, etc.

Good Luck