I am seriously thinking of buying a 2004 Ion3. Is this a good idea or should I look around more?
What have you been driving (last 3 or 4 cars), what are you looking for, and why are you interested in an ION? These just popped into my head, nothing sinister in my asking (really)...
I think what Jonnie Santos is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that many of us here prefer late model SL2s to new IONs. Saturn had the S-series sedans totally nailed in the late '90s and early '00s, and finding a good used SL2 may very likely give you a better vehicle at a much lower cost.
(Louis Hom) wrote in So your stand is a good used Saturn is better than a new saturn? That Saturns aren't as good as they were? For the last 9 yrs I've been driving a S10 4.3 litre Pick up truck. Before that it was a mix of various imports...mazda,subaru, and shudder even a dodge. That takes me back to about 1975. Before 1975 I owned VW, several Renaults, and even a Austin Mini (before the company folded). Lest we forget my Gremlin (please do). I like the looks of the Ion (it looks less plastic than other cars in its price range), I feel the need to buy a new car, as my life style has changed...used to be on the road, now I have a desk job. Several web sites have articles about Ions being a bit pricey for operating. I thought a Saturn NG would be a better source of info. Since there is only the need to carry me and the odd time a group. I thought the Ion would fit my needs. I have no use for a Vue...I could say that better, The Vue looks nice but I don't need or want the features it has. If an Ion isn't a good buy I will move on and continue to look for a better quality domestic built car. I never have had good luck with used cars...I feel I get stuck with somebody else's lemon.
I've got two ION 3s, 2003 model year. I'm happy with them. Mine is the Quad Coupe. Service by the dealer: Two recalls (fuel filter, body control module reprogramming). Replaced muffler (heat shield came unwelded at the front and was rattling). Waiting (my waiting - not dealer's fault) to get in to the dealer to get done: CVT computer reprogramming for the slight take-off hesitation. Minor irritation: Seat backs squeak. I'll either readjust them or grease them. My wife's is a sedan. Service by the dealer: Replace instrument cluster panel. The temp gauge was reading abnormally high. Waiting (her waiting): Two recalls Work on transmission for the second-gear flare. Minor irritation: She griped once about a smelly air conditioner. I would put the stuff that's gone on in the category of first year growing pains. I REALLY like the driving experience of the CVT on the quad coupe. We got the cars cheap: ~10% GM Employees discount (because I worked for Hughes) ~$3k off after the 10% for not financing them through them. Overall, I got a GREAT pair of cars for about $15k out the door each.
....no, I wasn't 'getting at' anything until I got some more info about the interest in the ION. I didn't want to say "Why and ION instead of a Civic or Corolla?" ...that (message thread) would have spun down a whole other path. Interestingly while I was at the Credit Union yesterday a guy who had just bought a 96 SL (for $2900) was asking me about my 97. Other than having to clean the throttle plate for a high idle prob, he seemed happy. He's looking at some aftermarket wheels/tires and maybe a muffler and a factory spoiler. I suggested Wes at the Saturn Performance shop out in El Cajon (San Diego) for exhaust ideas, as well as on the web with SPS and Joe's 6th Planet (for a used wing). Saturn isn't as interesting as it was (to me) today, and at the same time I do like some of the ION's features. I don't think I want another vanilla sedan (since I've been driving one for 7 years). So any make of small sedan is sorta off my list today. I still like the new Bug and the Mini Cooper - and want to see what this new Honda pickup (SUT) is going to materialize as assuming it leaves the concept stage.
" totally nailed " ? I had a 97 SL2 that was the worst car I ever owned by far. I still have all the service records for that piece of crap . I feel sorry for the person that bought that car after I traded it in.... -Dana
It ails me to say that. But when your spending between 12K-20K you go where the quality is, not because of where it is made.
Oh, I am so sad to hear someone advise jap cars. I would rather nickel and dime myself to death on an American built product than to own something imported. Buy US made whenever possible. We need our jobs more than they do.
Okay, call me a fish and I'll take the bait... Funny when I hear the derogatory slang word "Jap" I'm propelled back 30 years ago when most of the Fathers of the kids I grew up with fought in WWII and used the word freely. At age 5 I had a crush on Teri, the little girl down the street who's German-American Father brought home her Japanese war bride Mother. I thought Teri was the prettiest girl I'd ever seen and for up until the last 10-15 years I used to run into her Mom in the store still speaking broken English with a heavy Japanese accent - great gal! There was no point to the Teri story, it was just nice, self-absorbed visit into my past. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing some of us take nickel and diming (auto repairs) being acceptable because it's a cultural thing. It's my interpretation that behavior is unacceptable in Japanese culture, which hopefully translates into their products. There was a time when the word Japanese was synonymous with shoddy and cheap - yet for the most part, they've turned that around through higher quality products. That's exactly what GM needs to do. Honda cranks out a good car, and GM snows you over with fabulous advertising. I swear at the end of most GM commercials I'm ready to go buy! I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but a small, inexpensive car does not equal cheap, shoddy and frequent repairs. Saturn's done real good trying to disassociate that line of thought, but they did not and have not gone far enough. We need to hear more stories of Saturn's getting 300k with only normal wear items being replaced. I should qualify that would be for more average or better than average owners, and not my type who wear things out prematurely. And there are a few Japanese cars that are assembled here, paying American employees their salaries, health care bennies and contributing to their 401(k) plans. In the mean time some US corporations are sending service and support jobs overseas - where's their patriotism? I know that sounds sarcastic, and I just feel while the little guys are down here waving the flag, the CEO's are selling the nation's soul to the devil in the name of dividends and mondo bonus checks for the very few. I recently had a new entry door installed by a subcontractor Home Depot uses. The work is sloppy and I've had them back out 3 different times (with 2 more visits pending) to redo lousy work. They have the wrong size (depth) screws in the jam hinges, stripped screw heads, a loose threshold plate sitting above the original wooden one, etc. Now the door won't lock because the whole door is sagging. Guess what, I won't use their installation services again. Maybe we need Tokyo Home & Garden Centers to open and give Home Depot's Bernard Marcus a swift kick in the pants. But I digress... I like some Japanese cars - some of their designs are not to my taste. I still like American and some Italian and German design. And remember GM likes the Japanese too since they partnered with Toyota in their New United Motor Inc. facility in Freemont, CA. They also have interest in Isuzu. Oh, and silly me forgot GM is stuffing a Honda V6 into the Saturn VUE. However I am still negative about Korean cars as my perception of design and build quality is negatively biased - I have no supporting facts, I just don't like 'em. I probably wouldn't buy a Chinese car either - famous last words...
These U.S. CEOs have a very hard job. They must balance the number of jobs they outsource with the requirement that enough people in the U.S. still have jobs that pay well enough to buy their products. It is a mistake to use the installation services offered by Home Depot. It isn't really Marcus's fault. Home Depot doesn't attract the most qualified sub-contractors. As to the Ion, an extended warranty might be a prudent move when buying an unproven vehicle.
I don't share your respect for the typical CEO. Here in San Diego a local CEO related to providing services (computer resources) to the city recently got spanked when accounting discovered writes-offs of fancy meals and bar tabs at some of the most expensive/posh restaurants here in town. His annual salary (paycheck only) was a cool quarter million yearly and when they fired his blood sucking ass, they cashed him out with a check for $125k per the terms of his signing agreement. While this has nothing to do with outsourcing, it shows the lack of long-term vision regarding how one business affects business norms and public perception. And my rule of thumb is that where you see one instance of any type of human behavior, there are at least 1000 more examples out there. I agree about Home Depot's sub's - it's become an expensive lesson**... **I make considerably less than $250k yearly.
Personally I would not do this; did it once (with a Honda no less) and regretted it. However there are people who buy Saturns because they work for GM, or get a GM supplier discount, who will buy GM products simply out of loyalty to the company, or because they are getting a good deal. Before Saturn got into the discounting game, the employee and supplier discounts meant a significantly lower price than was available to the general public. You can mitigate the risk of an unproven vehicle with an extended warranty, though this does not guard against design issues which are not really warranty related problems. Ø Why would you want to buy an unproven vehicle on the firs place?
A more correct statement would be that Japanese companese companies are building cars here, paying American employees far lower salaries, providing reduced health care benefits, etc. and sending the profits back to Japan. Laws would be enacted in Congress, corporate headquarters buildings would be bombed and riots would occur if GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler said tomorrow that wages and benefits were going to be reduced to the level of the non-union right to work states and that millions of retirees were going to be cut loose (to match the number of retirees the Japanese transplants don't have to support). The hypocrisy on this issue is staggering. Japan drove their own economy into the tank with high wages, benefits and protectionism so now they are over here cherry-picking our economy. And looking over their own shoulder at China, Korea, etc. And we sit here whining about quality level differences. Talk about a forest/trees perception problem. Alan King
