Service light and maybe transmission mystery on a 2000LS

Hate to follow another tranny question, wouldnt want to give anyway
wrong ideas about Saturns.
I have well over 250,000 miles on my 2000LS, automatic, six cylinder.

I recently got new tires at my local garage and mentioned the service
light was coming on. He did a check and said it was the coolant
sensor. I said order the part and I'll come back. So i did and the
light came back that night.

I have a long commute into Mahattan (hence the mileage) and that's
enough to wreck any car. When the light returned, i noticed what I
would call a bucking (or a thud) in the transmission. This came after
a long drive at like 65-70. I hit the sidestreets and after a while
the light comes on and a thhe bucking starts. The tranny had been
somewhat rough at times recently but now a light went off in my head.
These two are related.

I drop off the car at night with this guy so i left a note explaining
that i thought it might be related. The next day he didn't mention the
note, just said the car was ready and that the codes had been cleared
out. I didn't mention the note either. This is the only service
station within walking distance of my house and that is a big help.

That night, tonight, same thing. After a long a drive, when I hit the
side streets, it starts to thump and the light comes on. The thump is
not horrendous but i fear it will get worse. Meanwhile I feel I paid
like $150 for nothing.

So ... what make the tranny make a loud thud going from first to
second (less noise after that), but only after having driven for a
while, and with it the service light goes on? The problem is i cant
duplicate this during the day time and mechanics don't want to take
your word for anything. If I had a detailed theory, it might help.
Also, perhaps a guess on what it would cost to fix. I cant put too
much more money into this car but that's what i say every time i put
too much money in it.

Thanks!

 

For what its worth, on my '01 lw300 6cyl, when the MAF sensor started to go,
the SES light came on and shortly after the shifting got very harsh.
Resetting the code caused all to run nicely for about 5 miles and then the
light came on again and the shifting got rough. Replaced the MAF sensor,
reset the code and all good.
Don't know if they purposely make it seem like your car is about to blow up
when in limp-home mode just to get you to repair it quicker. All sorts of
forced modes of operation are possible with computer driven systems. Some
are good and others just plain devious.
btw- code reset on my car is simply done by pulling the Controls B+ fuse in
the UHFB for 20 seconds. Codes are stored in RAM and power loss erases them.
Oppie (White Plains, NY)

 

Is that MAss AIr Flow? It relates to the transmission?
do you pull the fuse while car is running or not?
I just wish whatever is happening would happen full time so i can
bring it in and point to it.
Thanks!

 

Yes, MAF= Mass Air Flow. The bad MAF (diagnosed by seeing lean bank 1 and 2
in the codes) caused the Check Engine light to come on. I would guess that
the ECU then enters a limp-home or limited open loop mode. In any case, it
caused the transmission to shift very roughly.
Fuse was pulled with key off. It will reset the ECU and should make things
run nice for a while till a code gets thrown again. Not sure if this resets
the drive cycle so don't rely on this if you are ever trying to get a
vehicle past emissions testing.

This is where connecting a scan tool (not just a simple code reader) to see
what codes or data are presenting is needed. There is (very luckily) a very
good independant garage next door to where I work. The owner looks more like
a computer geek than a grease monkey and he really knows his stuff. When he
gets stumped, has a subscription service to call a guru. I always go to an
independant service first whenever possible (if I can't fix it myself).
If you're anywhere near Hawthorne, NY look up Auto Action on Brady Avenue.
Tis not the season to be riding a bicycle

 

I'm on Long Island.
There's a new Saturn place near me (imagine that). If this persists,
i'll go there. However i did pay a different Saturn place $90 last
summer to tell me there was nothing wrong with the engine fans only to
have my local guy fix it.

 

I'm on Long Island.

 

That does happen even to the best of shops at times. If you read my posts
back in August, I was up against the wall needing to drive to my son's
wedding. The week before, the engine would die on me intermittently. My
thoughts were that it was the crank angle sensor. Not enough time for me to
do the job myself and my regular tech was closed for vacation so I took it
to Saturn. They mis-diagnosed a leaking fuel rail test port as the cause and
charged me $95. Yes, the port would leak slightly if you took the cap off
but with the cap on, no leak. I disputed it and said that it would happen
again. It happened again the next day. Dropped off the car at Saturn told
them I now had to rent a car to get to the wedding. When we came back (it
was a wonderful wedding), they still had not fixed the problem. In fact,
since it was an intermittent, they couldn't get it to fail at all. Having
had enough of this, I bypassed the service desk and walked into the shop to
talk the the tech working on the car. They had wanted to replace the MAF
again based on the codes they were getting (turned out to be phantom codes
caused by a timing error). Told them that the MAF was replaced 4 months
earlier and showed them a saturn invoice - and that if they insisted on
replacing it, it would be a warranty...they didn't replace the MAF. Anyway,
in talking to the tech, I gave reasons why I thought it might be the crank
sensor and we both agreed that that was a reasonable thing to do next. It's
been running fine with nary a hiccup since.

There are diagnostic codes for the crank sensor but only for very specific
conditions. Since this sensor gives the master timing for the engine,
ignition and all tests are synchronized to it. If there is an erratic
signal, phantom codes can be thrown. Also explains why engine backfired on
acceleration earlier which killed the sensitive MAF.

Long Island, eh? So the Silver Snail* is not an option for you?

Oppie

* For those outside the area, the Long Island Railroad is known as the
Silver Snail.

 

I've heard of Dashing Dans but not Silver Snails.
Yesterday the light and the thumps appeared during the day but not at
night.
I work nights and the area where i live (fairly far out) doesn't get
much service that late. I do it when the weather's iffy, more now than
before. Basically i would get home an hour later if i took the train.
Besides there's nothing like driving around Manhattan looking for
parking. I'm getting to know the people at the tow pound.

 

Why did I recall hearing on the NY radio, something about the silver snail
related to the LIRR? Maybe my mind is starting to go. Dashing Dans does ring
a bell.

Ok, so I google for silver snail LIRR and get a few hits.

December 14th, 2007 Perhaps the dreadful LIRR could learn from this. Its
president, Helena Williams, has stated that customer service is a priority.
Why then, did she eliminate express trains on the Babylon branch on the
weekends? This takes away from the service for everyone east of Babylon.
They now have to change to a "silver snail" which takes 70 minutes instead
of the previous 52 minutes from Babylon to Penn Station. Welcome back to
1910! - Posted by Robert Huemmer
on page
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/mta-expands-service-on-no-7-and-l-lines/

 

I'm not sure where the "dan's" came in... I remember it as "The Route of the
Dashing Commuter"...

Here's a quick link for ya...

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1986/dashingdan4jm.jpg

IYM
(who lives in Yaphank)

 

I remember the logo, never realized it said "Dashing Commuter." Not
too catchy. Dan was the man, i guess unofficially. Never saw the
Dashing Dottie before. That seems to be official. In those days very
few women commuted. Now every household has two paychecks to maintain
what used to be done on one. Progress!

 

In an attempt to get this back on track and i dont mean railroad
tracks:

Other day my friend and his wife were in the car. They have the same
2000 LS as me, they liked mine and bought one. They have had problems
with the service light and transmission for some time. The symptoms
are a little different. It doesnt happen as regularly as mine and it
usually happens when the weather changes. Repeated visits to Saturn
service did not help. She even waited until the light came on and then
drove it to Saturn and even then they could not figure it out. I had
thought of doing that but now i guess i wont.
With me it's car runs fine until service light comes on, then the
transmission starts to buck (for lack of a better word). This only
happens after the car has run at highyway speed for at least a half
hour and the hits the side streets. That's when light comes on and the
tranny gets rough. With my car this doesnt happen every time but close
to it. Car is still driveable, obviously. Just hesitant.
THanks.

 

One problem is to determine whether the transmission bucking is due to
engine being in limp home mode (which makes for rough and abrupt shifts at a
higher than normal shift point) or something actually with the transmission
or powertrain control module/senosrs/valves. Any service organization worth
their salt should be able to repeat your drive cycle with a scanner attached
to record data that preceedes any code.

Aside from that - Happy New Year <Hic>
Oppie

 

>,
says...

If you don't ask for the codes, and you don't provide us the codes, then
no one here can even begin to help you...