Service light and maybe transmission mystery on a 2000LS

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byrdsfan

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Hate to follow another tranny question, wouldnt want to give anyway wrong ideas about Saturns. I have well over 250,000 miles on my 2000LS, automatic, six cylinder.

I recently got new tires at my local garage and mentioned the service light was coming on. He did a check and said it was the coolant sensor. I said order the part and I'll come back. So i did and the light came back that night.

I have a long commute into Mahattan (hence the mileage) and that's enough to wreck any car. When the light returned, i noticed what I would call a bucking (or a thud) in the transmission. This came after a long drive at like 65-70. I hit the sidestreets and after a while the light comes on and a thhe bucking starts. The tranny had been somewhat rough at times recently but now a light went off in my head.
These two are related.

I drop off the car at night with this guy so i left a note explaining that i thought it might be related. The next day he didn't mention the note, just said the car was ready and that the codes had been cleared out. I didn't mention the note either. This is the only service station within walking distance of my house and that is a big help.

That night, tonight, same thing. After a long a drive, when I hit the side streets, it starts to thump and the light comes on. The thump is not horrendous but i fear it will get worse. Meanwhile I feel I paid like $150 for nothing.

So ... what make the tranny make a loud thud going from first to second (less noise after that), but only after having driven for a while, and with it the service light goes on? The problem is i cant duplicate this during the day time and mechanics don't want to take your word for anything. If I had a detailed theory, it might help. Also, perhaps a guess on what it would cost to fix. I cant put too much more money into this car but that's what i say every time i put too much money in it.

Thanks!
 
For what its worth, on my '01 lw300 6cyl, when the MAF sensor started to go, the SES light came on and shortly after the shifting got very harsh. Resetting the code caused all to run nicely for about 5 miles and then the light came on again and the shifting got rough. Replaced the MAF sensor, reset the code and all good. Don't know if they purposely make it seem like your car is about to blow up when in limp-home mode just to get you to repair it quicker. All sorts of forced modes of operation are possible with computer driven systems. Some are good and others just plain devious. btw- code reset on my car is simply done by pulling the Controls B+ fuse in the UHFB for 20 seconds. Codes are stored in RAM and power loss erases them.
Oppie (White Plains, NY)
 
For what its worth, on my '01 lw300 6cyl, when the MAF sensor started to go, the SES light came on and shortly after the shifting got very harsh. Resetting the code caused all to run nicely for about 5 miles and then the light came on again and the shifting got rough. Replaced the MAF sensor, reset the code and all good. Don't know if they purposely make it seem like your car is about to blow up when in limp-home mode just to get you to repair it quicker. All sorts of forced modes of operation are possible with computer driven systems. Some are good and others just plain devious. btw- code reset on my car is simply done by pulling the Controls B+ fuse in the UHFB for 20 seconds. Codes are stored in RAM and power loss erases them.
Oppie (White Plains, NY)

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

Is that MAss AIr Flow? It relates to the transmission?
do you pull the fuse while car is running or not?
I just wish whatever is happening would happen full time so i can bring it in and point to it.
Thanks!
 
byrdsfan said:
Is that MAss AIr Flow? It relates to the transmission?
do you pull the fuse while car is running or not?
I just wish whatever is happening would happen full time so i can bring it in and point to it.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yes, MAF= Mass Air Flow. The bad MAF (diagnosed by seeing lean bank 1 and 2 in the codes) caused the Check Engine light to come on. I would guess that the ECU then enters a limp-home or limited open loop mode. In any case, it caused the transmission to shift very roughly. Fuse was pulled with key off. It will reset the ECU and should make things run nice for a while till a code gets thrown again. Not sure if this resets the drive cycle so don't rely on this if you are ever trying to get a vehicle past emissions testing.

This is where connecting a scan tool (not just a simple code reader) to see what codes or data are presenting is needed. There is (very luckily) a very good independant garage next door to where I work. The owner looks more like a computer geek than a grease monkey and he really knows his stuff. When he gets stumped, has a subscription service to call a guru. I always go to an independant service first whenever possible (if I can't fix it myself). If you're anywhere near Hawthorne, NY look up Auto Action on Brady Avenue. Tis not the season to be riding a bicycle
 
Yes, MAF= Mass Air Flow. The bad MAF (diagnosed by seeing lean bank 1 and 2 in the codes) caused the Check Engine light to come on. I would guess that the ECU then enters a limp-home or limited open loop mode. In any case, it caused the transmission to shift very roughly. Fuse was pulled with key off. It will reset the ECU and should make things run nice for a while till a code gets thrown again. Not sure if this resets the drive cycle so don't rely on this if you are ever trying to get a vehicle past emissions testing.

This is where connecting a scan tool (not just a simple code reader) to see what codes or data are presenting is needed. There is (very luckily) a very good independant garage next door to where I work. The owner looks more like a computer geek than a grease monkey and he really knows his stuff. When he gets stumped, has a subscription service to call a guru. I always go to an independant service first whenever possible (if I can't fix it myself). If you're anywhere near Hawthorne, NY look up Auto Action on Brady Avenue. Tis not the season to be riding a bicycle- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
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I'm on Long Island.
There's a new Saturn place near me (imagine that). If this persists, i'll go there. However i did pay a different Saturn place $90 last summer to tell me there was nothing wrong with the engine fans only to have my local guy fix it.
 
Yes, MAF= Mass Air Flow. The bad MAF (diagnosed by seeing lean bank 1 and 2 in the codes) caused the Check Engine light to come on. I would guess that the ECU then enters a limp-home or limited open loop mode. In any case, it caused the transmission to shift very roughly. Fuse was pulled with key off. It will reset the ECU and should make things run nice for a while till a code gets thrown again. Not sure if this resets the drive cycle so don't rely on this if you are ever trying to get a vehicle past emissions testing.

This is where connecting a scan tool (not just a simple code reader) to see what codes or data are presenting is needed. There is (very luckily) a very good independant garage next door to where I work. The owner looks more like a computer geek than a grease monkey and he really knows his stuff. When he gets stumped, has a subscription service to call a guru. I always go to an independant service first whenever possible (if I can't fix it myself). If you're anywhere near Hawthorne, NY look up Auto Action on Brady Avenue. Tis not the season to be riding a bicycle- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

I'm on Long Island.
 
byrdsfan said:
<BIG SNIP>
I'm on Long Island.
There's a new Saturn place near me (imagine that). If this persists, i'll go there. However i did pay a different Saturn place $90 last summer to tell me there was nothing wrong with the engine fans only to have my local guy fix it.
Click to expand...

That does happen even to the best of shops at times. If you read my posts back in August, I was up against the wall needing to drive to my son's wedding. The week before, the engine would die on me intermittently. My thoughts were that it was the crank angle sensor. Not enough time for me to do the job myself and my regular tech was closed for vacation so I took it to Saturn. They mis-diagnosed a leaking fuel rail test port as the cause and charged me $95. Yes, the port would leak slightly if you took the cap off but with the cap on, no leak. I disputed it and said that it would happen again. It happened again the next day. Dropped off the car at Saturn told them I now had to rent a car to get to the wedding. When we came back (it was a wonderful wedding), they still had not fixed the problem. In fact, since it was an intermittent, they couldn't get it to fail at all. Having had enough of this, I bypassed the service desk and walked into the shop to talk the the tech working on the car. They had wanted to replace the MAF again based on the codes they were getting (turned out to be phantom codes caused by a timing error). Told them that the MAF was replaced 4 months earlier and showed them a saturn invoice - and that if they insisted on replacing it, it would be a warranty...they didn't replace the MAF. Anyway, in talking to the tech, I gave reasons why I thought it might be the crank sensor and we both agreed that that was a reasonable thing to do next. It's been running fine with nary a hiccup since.

There are diagnostic codes for the crank sensor but only for very specific conditions. Since this sensor gives the master timing for the engine, ignition and all tests are synchronized to it. If there is an erratic signal, phantom codes can be thrown. Also explains why engine backfired on acceleration earlier which killed the sensitive MAF.

Long Island, eh? So the Silver Snail* is not an option for you?

Oppie

* For those outside the area, the Long Island Railroad is known as the Silver Snail.
 
I've heard of Dashing Dans but not Silver Snails.
Yesterday the light and the thumps appeared during the day but not at night. I work nights and the area where i live (fairly far out) doesn't get much service that late. I do it when the weather's iffy, more now than before. Basically i would get home an hour later if i took the train. Besides there's nothing like driving around Manhattan looking for parking. I'm getting to know the people at the tow pound.
 
Why did I recall hearing on the NY radio, something about the silver snail related to the LIRR? Maybe my mind is starting to go. Dashing Dans does ring a bell.

Ok, so I google for silver snail LIRR and get a few hits.

December 14th, 2007 Perhaps the dreadful LIRR could learn from this. Its president, Helena Williams, has stated that customer service is a priority. Why then, did she eliminate express trains on the Babylon branch on the weekends? This takes away from the service for everyone east of Babylon. They now have to change to a "silver snail" which takes 70 minutes instead of the previous 52 minutes from Babylon to Penn Station. Welcome back to 1910! - Posted by Robert Huemmer on page http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/mta-expands-service-on-no-7-and-l-lines/
 
I'm not sure where the "dan's" came in... I remember it as "The Route of the Dashing Commuter"...

Here's a quick link for ya...

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1986/dashingdan4jm.jpg

IYM
(who lives in Yaphank)
Click to expand...
I remember the logo, never realized it said "Dashing Commuter." Not too catchy. Dan was the man, i guess unofficially. Never saw the Dashing Dottie before. That seems to be official. In those days very few women commuted. Now every household has two paychecks to maintain what used to be done on one. Progress!
 
In an attempt to get this back on track and i dont mean railroad tracks:

Other day my friend and his wife were in the car. They have the same 2000 LS as me, they liked mine and bought one. They have had problems with the service light and transmission for some time. The symptoms are a little different. It doesnt happen as regularly as mine and it usually happens when the weather changes. Repeated visits to Saturn service did not help. She even waited until the light came on and then drove it to Saturn and even then they could not figure it out. I had thought of doing that but now i guess i wont. With me it's car runs fine until service light comes on, then the transmission starts to buck (for lack of a better word). This only happens after the car has run at highyway speed for at least a half hour and the hits the side streets. That's when light comes on and the tranny gets rough. With my car this doesnt happen every time but close to it. Car is still driveable, obviously. Just hesitant.
THanks.
 
One problem is to determine whether the transmission bucking is due to engine being in limp home mode (which makes for rough and abrupt shifts at a higher than normal shift point) or something actually with the transmission or powertrain control module/senosrs/valves. Any service organization worth their salt should be able to repeat your drive cycle with a scanner attached to record data that preceedes any code.

Aside from that - Happy New Year <Hic>
Oppie
 
>,
says...
That's when light comes on and the
tranny gets rough
Click to expand...

If you don't ask for the codes, and you don't provide us the codes, then no one here can even begin to help you...
 
Thee, O Lord, and my work with Thee. And now, saith the Lord, that formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob and Israel again to Him, Thou shalt be glorious in my sight, and I will be thy strength. It is a light thing that thou shouldst convert the tribes of Jacob; I have raised thee up for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the ends of the earth. Thus saith the Lord to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Princes and kings shall worship thee, because the Lord is faithful that hath chosen thee.

"Again saith the Lord unto me, I have heard thee in the days of salvation and of mercy, and I will preserve thee for a covenant of the people, to cause to inherit the desolate nations, that thou mayest say to the prisoners: Go forth; to them that are in darkness show yourselves, and possess these abundant and fertile lands. They shall not hunger nor thirst, neither shall the heat nor sun smite them; for he that hath mercy upon them shall lead them, even by the springs of waters shall he guide them, and make the mountains a way before them. Behold, the peoples shall come from all parts, from the east and from the west, from the north and from the south. Let the heavens give glory to God; let the earth be joyful; for it hath pleased the Lord to comfort His people, and He will have mercy upon t
 
it seems incredible that a single individual
should be. However, experience has shown me so great a number of such persons that the fact would be surprising, if we did not know that the greater part of those who trouble themselves about the matter are disingenuous and not, in fact, what they say. They are people who have heard it said that it is the fashion to be thus daring. It is what they call "shaking off the yoke," and they try to imitate this. But it would not be difficult to make them understand how greatly they deceive themselves in thus seeking esteem. This is not the way to gain it, even I say among those men of the world who take a healthy view of things and who know that the only way to succeed in this life is to make ourselves appear honourable, faithful, judicious, and capable of useful service to a friend; because naturally men love only what may be useful to them. Now, what do we gain by hearing it said of a man that he has now thrown off the yoke, that he does not believe there is a God who watches our actions, that he considers
 
knew not... it pleased God by the
foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

93St. Bernard, Sermones in Cantica Canticorum, lxxxiv. "The better one is, the worse one becomes, if one attributes the cause of this goodness to one's self."

[94]Ibid. "Meriting blows more than kisses, I fear not, because I love."

95John 11:33. Et turbarit seipsum. "And he troubled himself."

96Matt. 26:46. "Let us be going."

[97]Matt. 18:2. "Jesus went forth."

98Gen. 3:5. "Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

[99]John 20:17. "Touch me not."

100Allusion to John 6:56; 1:47; 8:36; 6:32. "True disciple; an Israelite indeed; free indeed; true bread."

101In discipulis meis. Isaiah 8:16. "Seal the law among my disciples."

[102]Is. 45:15.

1031 Cor. 1:17. "Lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

104"Rend your heart."

105Ps. 9:14. "Have mercy."

106Is. 5:7. "He has looked for."

107Ezek. 20:25. Praecepta non bona. "Statutes that were not good."

[108]"I will establish my covenant between me and Thee for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto Thee."

109Gen. 17:9. "Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore."

[110]Gen. 49:18. "I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord."

[111]Essays, 1. 22.

112Num. 11:29. Quis tribuat ut omnis populus prophetet. "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets."

[113]De cultu feminarum, i-3. "He could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit's inspiration, after it had been d
 
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