Saturn vs Pontiac

Just a fun topic: We have a few Pontiac Grand Ams and GP's on our lot, and
quite frankly I am impressed with them. There are many features that are
similar to the ION inside. I like the ION steering better though and had a
good laugh when I learned that the GT GrandAM V6 w/ "ram air" only puts out
170 hp. The ION is 140 and a lighter car, and soon there may be a 170 hp
ecotec engine option which is stil a 4cyl. Being that Saturn and Pontiac
share so much in common, it would be nice to see Saturn have some of
Pontiac's styling. Of course there is the SKY and the Solstice, the Relay
and the Montana and the G6 and the Aura.

According to Consumer Guide, while the Saturns lack apearance wise, Pontiac
lacks in performance, handling and safety. Hmm, like distant GM cousins.

marx404

 

You're talking about a 3400 (3.4L) Though it is a older pushrod motor it
makes 205 lb. ft of torque which is more than the current 2.2L Ecotec.
However I would much rather own and work on an GM's Ecotec than any of
GM's 60deg motors. Grand Ams also were being equiped with GM's Ecotecs
in 02. The ram air GA, although heaver, will likely out run the Ion in a
quarter mile. (people buy hp, but drive with torque)

Being that Saturn and Pontiac

Marx you should know better than to make a broad based generalization
like that. You're talking about "one" Pontiac, the cheapest Pontiac, not
the entire fleet. Most Pontiacs will run circles around anything else on
the road if not pace with it.

 

Well like I said, (and no generalization intended, just idle conversation) I
am impressed with the Pontiacs that I have seen. This includes the Grand
Prix, GTA and Grand AM, but again, I was suprised at the lack of handling
and what my expectations of power were from thier engines (of course I am an
old fool who remembers what a REAL GTO or Grand Prix felt like, lol).
However - I absolutely was head over heels with the wide-track GTP, wow,
what a car! Good handling and power.
I guess I really meant to say that in the future I hope to see more of a mix
of Pontiac and Saturn; looks and performance.

marx404

 

The new supercharged 3800 Series III in the Grand Prix's make the
following

260 hp @ 5200 rpm.
280 lb.-ft @ 3600 rpm.

and they get 19mpg city and 28mpg highway.

Other than the extra cost for 92 octane I'm not sure why they're not
selling twice as many!

One thing I cant understand is Pontiac dropping the Bonneville this
summer. First they downsized the beast till it was about the size of a
Grand Prix, then they come out with the GTO and claim they arent selling
enough of the Bonnevilles. Well YEAH when you make everything the same
size and nearly the same price its kinda hard to choose the Bonneville
when the GTO is RWD. Plus anyone that owns a Bonneville from 92-99 is
still driving it... The damn things wont die! The SSE's/SLE's and SSEi's
had great handling, damn near sports car like handling in a 3700lb car.
I guess the GTO's Pontiacs flagship car now...

 

for now until the G6 picks up in popularity. btw- speculation has it that
Mr. Lund says that there will be many similarities in the G6 and the new
Aura, one being the 3 part sliding glass roof panels. Sweet, huh?

thanks for the info, looks like Saturn and Pontiac will the the new life
breathers into the GM line for the next few yrs.

marx404

 

Theres always been life in GM. They just dont focus on upgrading every
make and model at "one" given time. The G6 uses GM's 60 degree based
motors. I wouldnt want to own let alone work on one of those, everything
is badly placed. Give me a 3800 any day. Besides that the G6's 3500 is
built in Mexico and the 3800 is built in Detroit. The 3800 also has more
torque and they get about the same gas mileage.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Base G6 - $20,675 - 3.5L V6 200HP 220Torque 3420Lbs 22/32 mpg
3.05 Final Gear Drive

Base GP - $24,960 - 3.5L V6 200HP 230Torque 3484Lbs 20/30 mpg
3.05 Final Gear Drive (2.93 optional)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Damn near twins except when you work on them.

http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/

On another note, the thing that has really impressed me is the new
Chevrolet Colorado's. They're a medium sized truck but get very
impressive gas mileage. I strongly suggest anyone looking for a light
duty pickup to check those out. Forget the Honda and Toyota wannabe
fullsize trucks. If you're looking at those then its obviouse you really
dont need a real truck and the Colorado will be enough to fill those
rare needs without eating up gas money as a daily driver.

 

I tend to agree, to a limited extent, on the relationship between Pontiac
and Saturn products. Both have existed as test beds and development
platforms for GM across the boards. However, I look at the relationship
between Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Saturn as being more like brothers sharing
many common links. But, Saturn seems to be the "redheaded stepchild" of the
lot. To explain that in more detail, Saturn gets less hype and media
attention than the other more established nameplates. Prime example is
Redline, which got limited advertising and attention. But, a little later
comes the Cobalt SS and 'Whoopee!' it's the greatest thing since sliced
bread! It's like Ray Charles releasing a good song, and a few months later
comes Pat Boone with a cover version and full media blowout including a spot
on Ed Sullivan.

Sorry, it just kinda gets to me...or maybe it's a lack fiber in my diet...I
don't know.

Anyway....yeah. On that distant cousin thing with Pontiac and
Saturn...yeah, I can see that.

 

GM may kill off brand

Exec says Buick, Pontiac need to meet sales goals or else.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-03-23-gm-plan_x.htm

 

But why does Pontiac feel the need for all the rippled plastic on their
cars?

Chris

 

Ribbed for her pleasure?!

Brad

 

Far better looking those rippled Mitsubitchi doors.

 

*yawn*. Buick's been on death row for years now. Selling cars to old
farts is Toyota's job now anyway...

 

Agreed! Gone are the days of Grand National, GNX, and muscle cars of the
late 60s and early 70s. The brand is tired, old, and has a loyal clientele
dying or too old to drive anymore. They might be able to revive the brand
if they focus on pimps and rappers. Bling up those big old cars, and launch
a new campaign! Spinners and gold accents standard! Get 50 cent as the
spokesperson , and every suburban 16 year old boy would be beggin their
daddy for one! A rebirth, and a whole new brand loyalty group. Or, they
could just sh#* can the old dead weight and save us all a lot of grief.

Yeah, kill it.

 

Or go back to their roots. What if they brought back something like the
Grand National built around the Pontiac GTO but with slightly different
styling. They could add a turbo and make something so awesome people stand
up and take notice.

Chris

 

Now theres an idea! With a turbo charged 3800! I'd buy that.

 

Great idea....therefore, they'll never do it. It a Murphy's Law Corollary,
applicable to General Motors specifically. Anything, that is a great idea
will in fact never make it to production. If it should somehow make it to
production, it will be ruined or discontinued the moment that they realize
that it is 'just to damn good.'

 

Chevy is already doing that. It's called the "Xtreme". Basically a Blazer or
S10 with some rice body kit. Same vehicle, but it's the "Xtreme" version.
Appeals to little white cappers that think a pickup is supposed to be
lowered.