saturn sl2 modders

[Rob Deen]

I am installing a pacesetter header kit
on a '99 sl2 and want to flange in a
straight thru resonator inplace of the
cat. Does anyone have any ideas for a
simulation O2 sensor device that emulates
the output readings from the cat exit.
I simply need to fool the ECU to not throw
a SES code with this setup. If i have a
schematic... i can build it.

other related engine mods...
_large bore Throttle Body
_intake tube & cone filter.

no oil burn @135k.

Rob

 

[Blah Blah]

Hmmm yes, break the law, choke the enviroment, gain 1hp.

What is this your daily driver?
May I ask what is the point in doing any of this?
I doubt your engine moves enough air for that cat to be restrictive and
any gains would be negligible.

I always thought 4 cylinders were for fuel economy, not to sound
pretty...

My 2 cents, mean as it may sound. :-|

 

[uknewwho]

and not to mention buning your exhaust valve springs from lack of back
pressure,also, it will probibly sound like dirt. Leave the cat in.
'Blah Blah' is right, the 1.9L (or any 4cly.) don't move enough air to get a
gain, by removing the cat. It may even slow you down.

 

[marx404]

While Blah may be making a valid point in his own way, you might also check
out SaturnSpot.com, SaturnFans.com and XtremeSaturn.com, all great places to
find other extreme modders. Why not just use a catback system or a dual
bypass system insyead of bypassing the cat anyways? You wont waste much HP
going that route and if it is a daily driver a cat is a good idea anyways.
On the other hand, if your SL is only for track use (ie: Moroso) and not to
be used on the street, then no cat is understandable.

marx404

 

[Ritz]

While Blah may be making a valid point in his own way, you might also check
out SaturnSpot.com, SaturnFans.com and XtremeSaturn.com, all great places to
find other extreme modders. Why not just use a catback system or a dual
bypass system insyead of bypassing the cat anyways? You wont waste much HP
going that route and if it is a daily driver a cat is a good idea anyways.
On the other hand, if your SL is only for track use (ie: Moroso) and not to
be used on the street, then no cat is understandable.

Even in the best of circumstances, the 1.9L Saturn engine isn't a very
tunable engine. It's an economy car, not a sports car. Installing a
test pipe probably won't get you any benefit at all, other than causing
the computer to completely botch your fuel trim. On one extreme, that
will hose your gas mileage. On the other extreme, you'll run lean and
roach your engine. Is that what you want?

If you want a car to mod and fiddle with, get a tuner friendly car.
There just isn't much available for the 1.9, and even the stuff that IS
available isn't going to buy you much horsepower (but will definitely
drain your wallet).

 

[marx404]

really now? While I said that I do agree that removing the cat for a
streetable car isnt a good idea, hmm, perhaps we should quickly rush over to
the aforementioned boards and warn all the 1.9 owners who have been doing
this for years that they are not tunable and that there isn't much available
for them ?

See ya at Moroso. Cheers!

marx404

 

[Rob Deen]

I am installing a pacesetter header kit
on a '99 sl2 and want to flange in a
straight thru resonator inplace of the
cat. Does anyone have any ideas for a
simulation O2 sensor device that emulates
the output readings from the cat exit.
I simply need to fool the ECU to not throw
a SES code with this setup. If i have a
schematic... i can build it.

other related engine mods...
_large bore Throttle Body
_intake tube & cone filter.

no oil burn @135k.

Rob

Yes i could have been more specific on the app
for this mod. Flanging both the cat and the
resonator would make for a quick out/in swap
for street/track environments. Without a code
during performance runs may add minimal warning
of other system malfuctions especially during
these open-loop conditions.
thx to all respective replys.

Rob

 

[Lane]

I am installing a pacesetter header kit on a '99 sl2 and want to flange in

a straight thru resonator inplace of the cat. Does anyone have any ideas for
a simulation O2 sensor device that emulates the output readings from the cat
exit.

Unless the SES puts the car in limp mode, just drive with it on. If you're
flanging the cat for a quick swap at the track, it shouldn't be a big thing.
If you're considering running without a cat on a street car, please don't.
The minimal gain isn't worth dirtying the air.

I have no cat on my race car (track only) also - but don't think it's going
to gain you more than a horse or two. Saturn catalytic converters are not a
substantial bottleneck and aren't very restrictive.

Casper Electronics sells a rear o2 simulator if you don't want the SES
light. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/oxygen_sensor_simulator/

I always thought 4 cylinders were for fuel economy, not to sound pretty...

Why not do both if you can. Most of us do whatever we can to enjoy the cars
we own.

and not to mention buning your exhaust valve springs from lack of back
pressure...

Unless you can refer me to occurrences where you've witnessed or read about
this, I'd consider this one of the many old-school V8 tales that doesn't
really apply to today's 4 cylinder motors. I know a handful of people who
race Saturns in some form or fashion, and those who have been running for
years with an open header and no exhaust haven't experienced any
valve-related problems. Every nut and bolt has probably worked its way
loose from the racket and vibration though.

Even in the best of circumstances, the 1.9L Saturn engine isn't a very

tunable engine.

Sure it is. It may not be as easy to get a lot of horsepower out of it as
others, but it has potential. There are people with turbo'd or nitrous fed
S-Series motors with virtually stock internals running 250 to 300
horsepower. Many of them hang out at http://www.turbosaturns.net/ .

It's an economy car, not a sports car.

Many feel that it's what you do with the car that makes it a sports car, not
the kind of car it is.

Installing a test pipe probably won't get you any benefit at all, other

than causing the computer to completely botch your fuel trim.

The factory PCM has no problem adjusting fuel/air to most intake/exhaust
changes.

If you want a car to mod and fiddle with, get a tuner friendly car.

Whether people feel it is 'tuner friendly' or not, people continue to do
some pretty neat things with Saturn cars:

* Lisa Kubo has broken into the 7s in the quarter mile with her
Ecotec-powered Ion (still 4 cyl, still FWD).
http://www.saturnmotorsports.com
* A Saturn Ion demolishes the previous top speed record in the G/BALT class
on the Bonneville Salt Flats by setting an average 212 mph speed run. The
previous record held by a Honda Civic was 183 mph. For pictures and more,
check out the forums at http://www.saturnfans.com or
http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2003/10/18/170946.html.

* A Saturn SC2 takes top honors in the SCCA's Showroom Stock C class. Mike
Kramer and the Thundersport Racing team dominated last year's Runoffs and
managed to score a first ever National title for a Saturn in Showroom Stock
C. While Saturn was viewed by some as not being competitive for the class,
Mike's victory certainly showcased the true potential of the platform.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=19867&ck=

* Jamin Cummings and Dale Seeley win the compact class in
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/ in a '97 SC2. Take a car with almost
200,000 miles on it, drive it 3000 miles across the country in one week's
time, and stop along the way to compete at a dozen or so racetracks. And
all the while - spraying an ENORMOUS amount of nitrous oxide. The race is
a test of longevity, durability, and sleep deprivation - and Jamin & Dale
drove the SC2 to victory. This is the third year in a row that a Saturn has
taken first place in this very competitive class. Visit Jamin's website at
http://www.spinorwinracing.com/ and read about their One Lap experience.

* Team SCR scores 9 podium finishes. In an impressive season, the combined
efforts of James Walker, John Comeskey and Mark Rushbrook managed to rack up
quite an array of fine finishes for the 2003 season. They overcame chasis
setbacks, uninvited on-track contact, and a few mechanical gremlins to put
together one heck of a racing season! Check out Team scR's fall newsletter
for details on their 2003 season at http://www.teamscr.com/03nl3.htm.

* The Saturn Performance Club's very own Saturn SC2 takes top honors in the
SCCA's CENDIV Improved Touring A class. After top-to-bottom preparation
solely by SPC volunteers, we managed to score a victory in our maiden race.
Immediately backing that up with 3 more victories and two second place
finishes allowed us to finish at the top of the CENDIV points race for the
2003 season. Another first for a Saturn in the CENDIV ITA world. Check out
the racing section at http://www.saturnperformanceclub.com for details.

Lane [ l a n e @ p a i r . c o m ]

 

[Blah Blah]

Yes i could have been more specific on the app
for this mod. Flanging both the cat and the
resonator would make for a quick out/in swap
for street/track environments. Without a code
during performance runs may add minimal warning
of other system malfuctions especially during
these open-loop conditions.
thx to all respective replys.

Rob

Ok so you plan on keeping it legal for the street? Thats good, I dont
mind saying what it takes to fool the computer then so long as its kept
"legal". The O2 sensor is basically a mild battery. Its voltage goes
from .1v to .9v depending on if its rich or lean exhaust passing over
it. Since the sensor your wanting to fool is downstreem of the Cat it
should give a consistent reading to show that the converter is cleaning
the burnt gases. So therefor the downstreem O2 sensor should give a
constant .5v when everythings good and warm.
So what do you need to do? You need a device that you can plug in when
racing that supplies a constant .5 volts.

 

[Ritz]

really now? While I said that I do agree that removing the cat for a
streetable car isnt a good idea, hmm, perhaps we should quickly rush over to
the aforementioned boards and warn all the 1.9 owners who have been doing
this for years that they are not tunable and that there isn't much available
for them ?

See ya at Moroso. Cheers!

I've owned *three* Saturns and have 25 years experience as a mechanic.
The 1.9 isn't very tunable. You can get a few hp here and a few hp
there, but that's the long and the short of it unless you want to tear
into the engine and do cams/valves/pistons/porting/etc. And even then,
the engine isn't going to respond to those changes as much as a number
of more "tuner friendly" engines. Been there, done that. It wasn't
worth the $$$ for the very small amount of horsepower gained.

I remember begging a number of manufacturers to produce supercharger
applications for the 1.9L, but nobody was interested. These days, I
drive a turbocharged Audi so I haven't spent a whole lot of time
researching the 1.9L Saturn performance market, but a quick look at SPS
and a few other sites didn't seem to indicate that things have changed
much in the last few years (at least for the Saturn 1.9L).

Cheers,

 

[Blah Blah]

Why not do both if you can. Most of us do whatever we can to enjoy the cars
we own.

Well for one 4 cylinders can never sound pretty as they can never lope.
They always sound like chainsaws. I think the best sounding 4 cylinders
are the ones you cant hear. Same goes for modern trucks with v8's with
stock cams. People pull the mufflers out or put in flowmaster mufflers
and all you get is a droning noise when going down the highway. The
wrong kind of sounds are very irritating. If they arent to you then your
probably the kind of person with bad music taste and the kind of person
that likes those repetitive lyrics songs that go on forever. lol

Come to think of it I guess thats why people with fart pipes always seem
to listen to rap.

Unless you can refer me to occurrences where you've witnessed or read about
this, I'd consider this one of the many old-school V8 tales that doesn't
really apply to today's 4 cylinder motors. I know a handful of people who
race Saturns in some form or fashion, and those who have been running for
years with an open header and no exhaust haven't experienced any
valve-related problems. Every nut and bolt has probably worked its way
loose from the racket and vibration though.


tunable engine.

Sure it is. It may not be as easy to get a lot of horsepower out of it as
others, but it has potential. There are people with turbo'd or nitrous fed
S-Series motors with virtually stock internals running 250 to 300
horsepower. Many of them hang out at http://www.turbosaturns.net/ .

Everything and anything has potential when you put Turbo's or Nitrous
to it. 250 and 300 horse isnt nothing when you can buy a stock late
model f-body making 325hp for what it would cost getting a 4 cylinder
car anywhere near that level. Even the torque and longevity of the v8
would always be greater.

Many feel that it's what you do with the car that makes it a sports car, not
the kind of car it is.

In that case my SSE bonneville that I had was a sports car. Compaired to
a british sports car from the 60's it could out corner and out
accelerate the best of them.

than causing the computer to completely botch your fuel trim.

The factory PCM has no problem adjusting fuel/air to most intake/exhaust
changes.


Whether people feel it is 'tuner friendly' or not, people continue to do
some pretty neat things with Saturn cars:

I think I would pick up a cheaper hobbie myself unless I was getting
paid to do this kind of stuff...