Rough Running '95 SL2 - What am I missing?

Car was running fine earlier in the day. Went to leave work, and it sounded
real rough. Found that it idled extremely rough at lights (almost
stalling), and bounced between 800-1000 rpm. Serious power loss when
hitting the gas, especially noticeable in 5th gear on the expressway.
Slight power surge when changing gears. RPMs took forever to climb when
flooring it, if they climbed at all.

Trip home is roughly 15 miles. Hit a gas station a few miles before I got
home, and dumped in some Gumout fuel injector cleaner, and 4 gallons of
Ultra to top off the tank. Still sounded like crap the 3 miles the rest of
the way home.

Car has ~163k on it. Burns oil like crazy, so I keep a case in the trunk to
top off. Plugs and wires are just over a year old. Weather was warm this
past weekend, but got colder within the past few days. Car has already
experienced freezing weather this year.

Observations-
Oil shows no signs of coolant and reservoir level is ok, so I doubt
headgasket.
Didn't see any shorts or tracing on the spark plug wires when running it
after dark (but it did run ever so slightly smoother than it did 3 hours
earlier).
Did the paperclip trick, no codes present.
Didn't pull EGR or PCV valves - both last cleaned about a year ago.
No problems starting - catches right away in the 3 times I have started it
since the problem surfaced.

Any ideas on where to go from here?

Thanks in advance,
-Kevin

 

Air leak between mass-flow air sensor and intake manifold?
Low fuel pressure? have you changed fuel filter or checked fuel pressure?
When was the timing belt changed? Might have skipped a tooth (if it skips a
few more goodbye engine)
Any valve noise?

_________________
| Car was running fine earlier in the day. Went to leave work, and it
sounded
| real rough. Found that it idled extremely rough at lights (almost
| stalling), and bounced between 800-1000 rpm. Serious power loss when
| hitting the gas, especially noticeable in 5th gear on the expressway.
| Slight power surge when changing gears. RPMs took forever to climb when
| flooring it, if they climbed at all.
|
| Trip home is roughly 15 miles. Hit a gas station a few miles before I got
| home, and dumped in some Gumout fuel injector cleaner, and 4 gallons of
| Ultra to top off the tank. Still sounded like crap the 3 miles the rest
of
| the way home.
|
| Car has ~163k on it. Burns oil like crazy, so I keep a case in the trunk
to
| top off. Plugs and wires are just over a year old. Weather was warm this
| past weekend, but got colder within the past few days. Car has already
| experienced freezing weather this year.
|
| Observations-
| Oil shows no signs of coolant and reservoir level is ok, so I doubt
| headgasket.
| Didn't see any shorts or tracing on the spark plug wires when running it
| after dark (but it did run ever so slightly smoother than it did 3 hours
| earlier).
| Did the paperclip trick, no codes present.
| Didn't pull EGR or PCV valves - both last cleaned about a year ago.
| No problems starting - catches right away in the 3 times I have started it
| since the problem surfaced.
|
| Any ideas on where to go from here?
|
| Thanks in advance,
| -Kevin
|
|

 

Air leak - I'll check
Fuel pressure - not sure. Dunno the last time the filter was cahnged, but
sudden onset of symptoms would make me suspect that's not the case.
Timing chain - never been changed.

 

Kevin,

I'm going to place my chips on a weak fuel pump. Though check the fuel
filter first. Sometimes, if you don't want to rent the fuel pressure
guage and hook it up, an alternative method is to have someone turn the
key to the run position...not starting the car or cranking it...while
you have your ear against the bottom of the fuel tank. You should hear a
hum of the pump running to pressurize the fuel line/fuel rail/fuel
injectors. The pump will run a few seconds then shut off. If there is no
sound or a itermittant or weak sound, then the pump may be on its last
legs and you will have to "drop the tank" (--joy--) and replace the
pump. If this is the case spend the extra money and get a genuine Saturn
or AC Delco part. I went the cheap way once and learned a bad lesson.
Yeah, this is one job you want to do once.

Jack

 

I can hear the pump run from inside the car when I turn the key to ACC
before cranking, so I don't think that's it.

 

Fuel pressure is a biggie. If you want to cheat, pull off the return line
from the injector rail back to the tank. Insufficient pressure will give no
flow in the return line. Of course, if the fuel pressure regulator is
defective, you will still get flow so it can be ambiguous. any water in the
gas tank can cause the fuel filter to become plugged. Gas passes throught
the pores in the filter; water doesn't and plugs it up. sometimes you get
lucky and can just add a can of drygas (anything but methyl preferred) but
don't bet on it.

If you have a distributor, check the timing with a timing light. See that
the firing angle is stable and at the right advance.

If I'm not making sense, it's because I'm new to Saturns. Been working on
other cars for almost 40 years and much of the new stuff still throws me. My
LW300 is going to be a *real* learning experience as to engine technology.
At 52, I'm still eager to learn.

Oppie

For correct response address, remove -nospam-
=========

 

....hearing the pump run doesn't mean it will hold pressure - just my 2
cents.

 

Oppie, just so you know, Saturns(well, at least S series, not familiar with the
new stuff) don't have mass air sensors, and they use timing chains as opposed
to belts.

 

...hearing the pump run doesn't mean it will hold pressure - just my 2

I agree......don't the guys with the infamous 97 faulty fuel pump issue still
hear the pump? Didn't you get a bad pump Jonnie?

 

Duly noted, thank you.

Like I've written before, I'm new to Saturns but have been working with cars
and engines for near on 40 years. Until I get up to speed with the saturn,
will just talk in generalities. I've asked a bunch of questions to the group
and try to give something back in exchange <smile>.

Oppie
'01 LW300
-
=========

 

Like I've written before, I'm new to Saturns but have been working with cars

I know, thats why I was nice to you about it

From what I've read you definitly have previous experience, it won't take too
long to get up to speed on the Saturn stuff.

 

Final verdict per the dealer-

No compression on #3 cylinder. $2500 to drop a used engine in it.

Time to go car shopping................

 

Yup, hard starting and a qualifying VIN got me a new one in late 2002.

 

So sorry for the problem. Reason I just got my saturn was a blown engine on
my '89 voyager. (no I didn't burn my lips on the tailpipe)
I may yet put a $500 used engine in it to keep as a spare car (good for
hauling). these are the benefits of being able to do my own mechanical work.

=========

 

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:39:24 GMT, "Kevin T"
same here too traded it in for newer lw300 either bent valve/valves or
stuck lifters car also used a ton of oil , had head replace due to
crack in port (warranty fix) at 98000 and at 138300 it crapped out
this was an sl1 regular 2.2L note; this was this was the only problem
I had the entire time since i bought the car new in 95

 

Currently looking at a 2004 Impreza 2.5L TS Sport Wagon... 1.9% financing
right now