Removing Front Brake Rotors w/o self tapping bolt holes ...

[Cuong Duong]

I'm using the Chilton Saturn manual to help me replace
my rotors. The manual says to use, "two M8 x 1.25 self
tapping bolts into the holes provided on the rotor."

The new rotors have the holes but the rotors on the
car now don't have the self tapping bolt holes.

Can anyone suggest how to remove the non-bolt hole
rotors? It's a 97 SW1 with 111k and the brakes have
never been touched. I'm replacing the pads too. The
only thing I don't have is the brake pad retaining
clips but I plan to get the clips before I start.

I really appreciate the help,
~

 

[Brad Bishop]

I'm using the Chilton Saturn manual to help me replace
my rotors. The manual says to use, "two M8 x 1.25 self
tapping bolts into the holes provided on the rotor."

The new rotors have the holes but the rotors on the
car now don't have the self tapping bolt holes.

Can anyone suggest how to remove the non-bolt hole
rotors? It's a 97 SW1 with 111k and the brakes have
never been touched. I'm replacing the pads too. The
only thing I don't have is the brake pad retaining
clips but I plan to get the clips before I start.

I guess I don't really understand. Whenever I've worked on brakes (both Saturn and non-Saturn) that had rotors, all you had to do was to remove the wheel and then take off a few screws to remove the brake calipers (hang it off the spring with a coat hanger). Once the caliper is out of the way the roter just comes right off. No big deal at all. To put them back on you can either use a tool to force the brake caliper apart (which, oddly, is what my Haynes manual suggests doing) or (what I prefer) just open the valve on the brakes and you can pull it apart fairly easily. You'll just have to bleed the brakes afterwards.

I've *never* had to use tapping bolts to pull off rotors or to do any other work on a car (not that there aren't situations where they may be needed but, for the average person working on their car, they aren't).

Do you have any other details?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[BANDIT2941]

I guess I don't really understand. Whenever I've worked on brakes (both

Saturn and non-Saturn) that had rotors, all you had to do was to remove the wheel and then take off a few screws to remove the brake calipers (hang it off the spring with a coat hanger). Once the caliper is out of the way the roter just comes right off. No big deal at all. To put them back on you can either use a tool to force the brake caliper apart (which, oddly, is what my Haynes manual suggests doing) or (what I prefer) just open the valve on the brakes and you can pull it apart fairly easily. You'll just have to bleed the brakes afterwards.

Thats pretty much my feelings. Don't know where you'd need self tapping bolts......

Worse comes to worse you may have to tap on the rotor a little bit to free it, but usually it slides right off once you get the caliper out of the way.

I wouldn't open the bleeder valve. Rather, remove the reservoir cap and use a C-clamp to compress the piston so it fits with the new pads and rotors. Keep an eye on the fluid level as it may overflow when you are compressing them.

 

[C. E. White]

I guess I don't really understand. Whenever I've worked on brakes (both Saturn and non-Saturn) that had rotors, all you had to do was to remove the wheel and then take off a few screws to remove the brake calipers (hang it off the spring with a coat hanger). Once the caliper is out of the way the roter just comes right off. No big deal at all. To put them back on you can either use a tool to force the brake caliper apart (which, oddly, is what my Haynes manual suggests doing) or (what I prefer) just open the valve on the brakes and you can pull it apart fairly easily. You'll just have to bleed the brakes afterwards.

I've *never* had to use tapping bolts to pull off rotors or to do any other work on a car (not that there aren't situations where they may be needed but, for the average person working on their car, they aren't).

I assume you are not talking about cars where the rotor is intergal with the front hub (like the front rotors on most US rear wheel drive vehicles).

For cars where the rotor is a seperate removal piece, they can freeze on the hub due to corrsion. I have heard of cases where the rotor had to be heated with a torch, cut with a sawsall, or beaten off with a hammer becasue it was "corroded" in place. This sort of problem is most often seen in areas where salt is used on the roads in the winter. I've never had this problem where I live (North Carolina), but I think the addition of holes for for jacking screws is a good idea.

If my rotors were corroded in place, I'd soak the hub/rotor interface with a good penetrating oil (PB Blaster is my favorite) and tap the rotor with a hammer to loosen it. If you have access to a torch, lightly heating the rotor might help (don't cook the hub!). I have heard of people deliberately leaving the lug nuts loose and driving the car very short distances (not out of the driveway) and sharply applying the brakes while rocking back and forth to beak the rotors loose. I think this is a bad idea and would never try in myself. Another solution is to make radial cuts in the rotors with a sawsall and the hit the rotor sharply with a hammer to break the rotor into pieces.

Ed

 

[Lane]

Use a can of penetrant and try to get it in between the rotor and front hub. Then beat on the rotor backside with with a hammer. A big hammer. I'm sure it would be safest to the bearings in the hub if you never had to do that, but I haven't found any other way when they are rusted on and will not come off by any other means.

My Haynes manual suggests the bolt method, but I never could get that to work in a rotor that did have the holes. Even with the hardest grade bolts I could find, they wouldn't thread in.

Lane [ l a n e @ p a i r . c o m ]

 

[Brad Bishop]

If my rotors were corroded in place, I'd soak the hub/rotor interface with a

good penetrating oil (PB Blaster is my favorite) and tap the rotor with a hammer to loosen it. If you have access to a torch, lightly heating the rotor might help (don't cook the hub!). I have heard of people deliberately leaving the lug nuts loose and driving the car very short distances (not out of the driveway) and sharply applying the brakes while rocking back and forth to beak the rotors loose. I think this is a bad idea and would never try in myself. Another solution is to make radial cuts in the rotors with a sawsall and the hit the rotor sharply with a hammer to break the rotor into pieces.

Wow. I've never see rotor corroded in place and never even considered it. I'm sure it happens, it just never even occurred to me.

Thanks for clarifying.

Here's another Saturn brake issue:

My rotors are warped (again). I replaced them last spring and by the end of the summer they were vibrating pretty hard. It seems to be very temperature sensitive, though, as when it cools off outside the brakes are fine but when it warms up, they vibrate quite a bit. I've never had rotors that were sensitive to the outside temperature (or that I ever noticed being sensitive). I'm wondering if they are just defective. Obviously, it's time to replace them again.

One my original Saturn (1994) I had to get the rotors replaced at 20,000mi due to warping. Those rotors lasted until 150,000mi when I traded it in on the current (2001) Saturn. I was hoping to have these new rotors last a while but they didn't even last 6 months. I don't think it's due to hard driving as my final rotors on my previous Saturn were fine with 130,000mi on them. I haven't changed my driving habits.

I don't want to keep buying rotors, though.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[Kirk Kohnen]

I have some thoughts. I've found that you can use cheap (the $20 Chinese ones that you get at any of the usual auto parts stores). However, get yourself a good torque wrench, and tighten all of the lug nuts to the correct torque (103 ft lbs).

Tighten in two steps - first set all of them to 50 ft lbs in a criss-cross pattern, then torque it up to 103 in a criss-cross pattern.

I've done this and never had a warped rotor issue.

 

[Brad Bishop]

I have some thoughts. I've found that you can use cheap (the $20 Chinese ones that you get at any of the usual auto parts stores). However, get yourself a good torque wrench, and tighten all of the lug nuts to the correct torque (103 ft lbs).

Tighten in two steps - first set all of them to 50 ft lbs in a criss-cross pattern, then torque it up to 103 in a criss-cross pattern.

I've done this and never had a warped rotor issue.

I specifically torqued to 100 ft lbs when I put the rotors on in the spring but it is a possibility that somewhere along the lines someone rotated the tires and just clamped them down with their air-wrench.

What a pain.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Enjoy!

Brad

 

[C. E. White]

Here's another Saturn brake issue:

My rotors are warped (again). I replaced them last spring and by the end of the summer they were vibrating pretty hard. It seems to be very temperature sensitive, though, as when it cools off outside the brakes are fine but when it warms up, they vibrate quite a bit. I've never had rotors that were sensitive to the outside temperature (or that I ever noticed being sensitive). I'm wondering if they are just defective. Obviously, it's time to replace them again.

Sometimes when you think the brake rotors are warped, they aren't really warped. Instead there is a spot on the rotors where the lining material has transferred to the rotor creating an area with a different coefficient of friction. As this spot passes under the pads you get differential braking action and that warped rotor feel. This is often caused by hard braking on new pads. Apparently the binding agent in the pads transfers to the rotors. Lightly sanding the rotors might help this. Or a different type of pad. Another cause of that warped rotor feel is a tire with a broken belt. Swapping the tires around can identify this sort of problem.

Ed

 

[Brad Bishop]

Sometimes when you think the brake rotors are warped, they aren't really warped.

Instead there is a spot on the rotors where the lining material has transferred to the rotor creating an area with a different coefficient of friction. As this spot passes under the pads you get differential braking action and that warped rotor feel. This is often caused by hard braking on new pads. Apparently the binding agent in the pads transfers to the rotors. Lightly sanding the rotors might help this. Or a different type of pad. Another cause of that warped rotor feel is a tire with a broken belt. Swapping the tires around can identify this sort of problem.

Good suggestions. I'm going to do the oil changes / plugs this weekend so I'll take the tires off while I'm there and lightly sand the rotors to see if it helps.

Thanks,

Brad

 

[Lane]

More info can be found here:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

Lane [ l a n e @ p a i r . c o m ]

 

[Jonnie Santos]

Ditto about the torque wrench - the only piece I add is to retighten again after 30-50 miles of driving (my front's tend to back off a little from the initial tightening)...