radiator leak

[Mephistopheles Jones]

I've got a 93 SL2 with a radiator leak. The ends of the radiator are made of hard rubber, and there is a pinhole leak on one end. Anyone know if the ends can be replaced, or do I need to get a whole new radiator? I just epoxied the thing up so I can get around a little.

 

[Ritz]

I've got a 93 SL2 with a radiator leak. The ends of the radiator are made of hard rubber, and there is a pinhole leak on one end. Anyone know if the ends can be replaced, or do I need to get a whole new radiator? I just epoxied the thing up so I can get around a little.

Nope, you need a new one. You really need to change the DEXcool in those things every 2-3 years in spite of the advertised "5 year" long-life coolant used.

Fortunately, that radiator isn't terribly expensive and it's pretty easy to change.

Cheers,

 

[SnoMan]

Nope, you need a new one. You really need to change the DEXcool in those things every 2-3 years in spite of the advertised "5 year" long-life coolant used.

A good radiator shop can replace the tanks on it but it may cost as much as a new unit. Also, if you do not stay with the 50.50 locic (which is not really enough in a aluminum engine) and run 60/40 or 70/30 (anitfreeze to water) you will find tht it lasts a LOT longer. I run 70/30 is several vehicle here dexi and non dexiand even after 5 or more years the coolant is still clean and so is overflow tank. I have a 89 4x4 burb that I have had since new and it has had 70/30 in it for about 15 years in it and the raditor is still clean as day one and so is overflow tank and it has not been changed for about 7 or 8 years now.

 

[Ritz]

A good radiator shop can replace the tanks on it but it may cost as much as a new unit. Also, if you do not stay with the 50.50 locic (which is not really enough in a aluminum engine) and run 60/40 or 70/30 (anitfreeze to water) you will find tht it lasts a LOT longer. I run 70/30 is several vehicle here dexi and non dexiand even after 5 or more years the coolant is still clean and so is overflow tank. I have a 89 4x4 burb that I have had since new and it has had 70/30 in it for about 15 years in it and the raditor is still clean as day one and so is overflow tank and it has not been changed for about 7 or 8 years now.

It's practically impossible to change the plastic end tanks on these aluminum radiators in a cost effective manner. Just get a new one.

Also, the chemical agents in ANY antifreeze are consumed over time so I'd recommend not taking the advice above and flush/refill on or before the recommended intervals (I usually go 2-3 years). Also, if you change the ratio to use a higher percentage of coolant, the cooling performance actually diminishes. Water is a better conductor of heat than antifreeze.

Cheers,

 

[SnoMan]

It's practically impossible to change the plastic end tanks on these aluminum radiators in a cost effective manner. Just get a new one.

Not, the can be replaced and have new one clamped on just like the tanks can be recored

Also, the chemical agents in ANY antifreeze are consumed over time so I'd recommend not taking the advice above and flush/refill on or before the recommended intervals (I usually go 2-3 years). Also, if you change the ratio to use a higher percentage of coolant, the cooling performance actually diminishes. Water is a better conductor of heat than antifreeze.

You are miss informed. Water is HIGHLY reactive with aluminum and the more of it is is the more reaction for anitfreeze to suppress, the less the bettter. Also water is not a better heat conductor actauly anitfreeze is because it has a higher boil/gas point when it contact hot block surface and it bonds to it better to take heat from it. Gylcol does have a lower specific heat (the amout of BTU required to heat the same volume of it as water but not by much) but this rerally has no bearing in a properly designed seal cooling system. BTW, I also run 7PSI caps on most of my vehicles with 70/30 and I have had not cooling problems at all and never even exceed 210 in 105 degree outside temps with A/C on or towing.

 

[Bob Shuman]

I agree with Ritz advice and also disagree with SnoMan.

Flush and fill to keep the radiator, heater core, engine block, and head clean and free of deposits that can clog the passages.

And, although water is indeed more corrosive and has a lower boiling point, it is in fact the better conductor of heat, so a 70/30 mix of antifreeze/water will be less effective in cooling the engine than a 50/50 mixture.

SnoMan, If you believe this information is not correct, then please cite your source so we can become as knowledgeable as you. Thanks much.

Bob

 

[SnoMan]

And, although water is indeed more corrosive and has a lower boiling point, it is in fact the better conductor of heat, so a 70/30 mix of antifreeze/water will be less effective in cooling the engine than a 50/50 mixture.

Again this is in error. A coolant has to remove heat from a hot surface and transfer it to another area. At the microscopic level, water gases in tiny bubble on contact with a hot surface and this gas bearier reduces heat transfer to coolant. (also known as surface tension) Also antifreeze is denser and can absorb more heat per gallon than pure water or 50/50. Where water has gotten the reputation as a better cooler is from the fact that it will boil at about 210 without a cap and given the energy required to boil it it can keep engine from overheating until coolant has boiled off. Pure anit freeze boils around 350 degress and you would not even need a pressure cap on radiator if you used pure anitfreeze like you need with water. People will spend 20 or 30k and more for e vehicle and yet scrimp on adding extra antifreeze and complain when there is a problem. Maza recognized the problem long ago and when they first marketed aluminum rotory engine, they recommanded 90/10 mixture level. You are free to believe that your 50/50 mixture protects you modern engine best but it does and 60/40 should be the minimumm here in todays reactive cooling systems.

 

[Ritz]

Not, the can be replaced and have new one clamped on just like the tanks can be recored

Sure, it's technically possible, but I don't know of any shops that actually do it. And even if they did, it would likely be more expensive than actually buying a new part. By that reasoning, it's also possible to rebuild your water pump when it fails, but most people just buy a new one and only try to fix an old one if a new part is no longer available.

You are miss informed.

I'm not misinformed at all. I'm quite aware of the chemistry of water/antifreeze/aluminum/iron in a typical cooling system. You seem to be a bit misinformed though.

Water is HIGHLY reactive with aluminum and the

more of it is is the more reaction for anitfreeze to suppress, the less the bettter.

Heh. Water is the conduit for removing heat from the system. Antifreeze is added for 2 reasons:

1. To keep the water from freezing in the winter.
2. The supply additives to stop the corrosion process.

Adding "extra" of either one of these components doesn't help you. If there are enough additives to prevent corrosion and enough ethylene glycol to prevent freezing, doubling or tripling that amount isn't going to improve the situation. What it WILL do is displace water which is a much better remover of heat.

Also water is not a better heat conductor actauly

anitfreeze is because it has a higher boil/gas point when it contact hot block surface and it bonds to it better to take heat from it.

You're simply wrong here.

Gylcol does have a lower specific heat (the amout of BTU required to heat the same volume of it as water but not by much) but this rerally has no bearing in a properly designed seal cooling system. BTW, I

And you seem to acknowledge that here. Strange...

also run 7PSI caps on most of my vehicles with 70/30 and I have had not cooling problems at all and never even exceed 210 in 105 degree outside temps with A/C on or towing.

Which is rather irrelevant to the discussion, but I'm glad it works for you. This has gotten somewhat far afield from whether or not the original poster can get his radiator fixed (in cased you missed it, that answer is "no" unless he/she wants to pay more than the cost of a new one).

Best regards,

 

[Ritz]

Again this is in error. A coolant has to remove heat from a hot surface and transfer it to another area. At the microscopic level, water gases in tiny bubble on contact with a hot surface and this gas bearier reduces heat transfer to coolant. (also known as surface tension) Also antifreeze is denser and can absorb more heat per gallon than pure water or 50/50. Where water has gotten the reputation as a better cooler is from the fact that it will boil at about 210 without a cap and given the energy required to boil it it can keep engine from overheating until coolant has boiled off. Pure anit freeze boils around 350 degress and you would not even need a pressure cap on radiator if you used pure anitfreeze like you need with water. People will spend 20 or 30k and more for e vehicle and yet scrimp on adding extra antifreeze and complain when there is a problem. Maza recognized the problem long ago and when they first marketed aluminum rotory engine, they recommanded 90/10 mixture level. You are free to believe that your 50/50 mixture protects you modern engine best but it does and 60/40 should be the minimumm here in todays reactive cooling systems.

Um...this is just patently wrong. I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it's simply not correct. If you're getting it from some "reliable source" I'd love to see the original source's explanation.

Best regards,

 

[SnoMan]

Um...this is just patently wrong. I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it's simply not correct. If you're getting it from some "reliable source" I'd love to see the original source's explanation.

The error here is yours, mine is based on science not hearsay and if you can read a news group you can easily find the data to support my comments on the web if you know how to use a search engine. I do not make claims that are not based on fact or science unlike some others do. You can ignore the science if you want but it will not change the facts of it. GM sticks with 50/50 because their bean counters have figured out how many millions of dollars a year they can save on coolant and that it will last long enough for warranty and the when it goes bad you can either pay their dealers to service it or buy a new car and start the cycle all over. Do you think that they are going to sell you a vehicle with the proper coolant mixture at most cost to them and that will require less servicing and repair or need for replacement parts/ Get real it is planned obsolessence so that they can sell you another one or part for current one. No profit in build a vehicle that lasts too long. Wake up!!

 

[SnoMan]

Sure, it's technically possible, but I don't know of any shops that actually do it. And even if they did, it would likely be more expensive than actually buying a new part.

I do not know where you live but they do it here and can easily recore your tanks with a thicker core for more capacity. Granted you can only do it a time ot two before the clamp tabs weaken but you can do it.

 

[Bob Shuman]

I still will exercise my right to disagree based on my college thermodynamics and fluid mechanics courses. Although they were many years back, the basic physics here has not changed.

Please cite your source for the benefit of us "ignorant" old folks. Thank you.

Bob

 

[Ritz]

The error here is yours, mine is based on science not hearsay and if you can read a news group you can easily find the data to support my comments on the web if you know how to use a search engine. I do not make claims that are not based on fact or science unlike some others do. You can ignore the science if you want but it will not change the facts of it. GM sticks with 50/50 because their bean counters have figured out how many millions of dollars a year they can save on coolant and that it will last long enough for warranty and the when it goes bad you can either pay their dealers to service it or buy a new car and start the cycle all over. Do you think that they are going to sell you a vehicle with the proper coolant mixture at most cost to them and that will require less servicing and repair or need for replacement parts/ Get real it is planned obsolessence so that they can sell you another one or part for current one. No profit in build a vehicle that lasts too long. Wake up!!

Translation: You have no source.

Game. Set. Match.

Thanks for playing.

Cheers,

 

[Ritz]

Indeed. I did my stint at an ivy league engineering school too. 4 semesters of physics...etc...etc...but I also worked at the family business (after school, weekends, summers) for many years. That family business is an auto repair shop that's been in continuous operation since the 1930's.

In short, Snoman has no idea what he's talking about. That's based on both my background in science and my background in the real world. I'll leave it to people to draw their own conclusions.

Cheers,

I still will exercise my right to disagree based on my college thermodynamics and fluid mechanics courses. Although they were many years back, the basic physics here has not changed.

Please cite your source for the benefit of us "ignorant" old folks. Thank you.

Bob

 

[SnoMan]

I still will exercise my right to disagree based on my college thermodynamics and fluid mechanics courses. Although they were many years back, the basic physics here has not changed.

Yo need to recheck you books on this one because you must have misssed coolant principles in cooling systems. While you coolant may be 200 or 210, the parts it comes in contact with can easily exceed the boiling tempature of the coolant especailly if there is a lot of water in it and this form a gas buble barrier that slows the heat transfer rate to coolant where as high consentrations of antifreeze with it much higher boil point do not gas and form the barrier to impead heat transfer. Ethylene and Propylene Glycol act the same here and propylene has even a high boil point and it achieves its lowest freeze point too at 100% concentration unlike ethylene. Both glycols are about 20% heavier than water and therefore have more mass as will. Also whe the reach boil point, they has a much lower surface tension (abilty to form and retain air/gas bubbles) sothey will transfer heat out of a item better even if its surface tempature exceeds the boil point of the coolant itself. The only reason that cars do not come with more antifreeze is cost per unit not because it is better not to. There is a strong galvantic reaction between aluminum and steel/cast iron parts with coolant in a engine block when water is present and the less water the better in this regaurd. In teh older days when they used brass cores raditors that were soldered in, there was issues with lead salt forming in tanks and blocking fins internally. Again if you run very high levels of anitfreeze, the problem does not surface. In my 79 J20, the tank is still clean with no deposits because I have had 70/30 or better in it for years. BTW, 15 years ago the tank ruptured at the seam one hot summer day and after I repaird it I switch to a 7 psi cap and never had another leak and no cooling issues either.

 

[Steve]

<snip>
GM sticks with 50/50 because their bean counters have
figured out how many millions of dollars a year they can save on coolant and that it will last long enough for warranty and the when it goes bad you can either pay their dealers to service it or buy a new car and start the cycle all over. Do you think that they are going to sell you a vehicle with the proper coolant mixture at most cost to them and that will require less servicing and repair or need for replacement parts/ Get real it is planned obsolessence so that they can sell you another one or part for current one. No profit in build a vehicle that lasts too long. Wake up!!

That's pretty dumb of those bean counters -- if all they care about is maxing profit by saving money on coolant, why don't they just reduce the warrantee period and make the plants put tap water with red dye in the system? Or just convince us morons that comprise the buying public that the engines can be cooled by air, then they can save the cost of both the liquid coolant and the whole coolant system -- BIG savings!

 

[seawater]

Thir reccomendation to use 50/50 mixture isnt to save coolant , it is to give proper freeze and boil protection. the corosion protection doea not come from the glycol it comes from the additives. The glycol is actually more corrosive than the water, and speeking of the water you should use deionized water rather than distilled water, it is less corrosive than the distilled water. Deionised water can be found in drug stores. Its not free but it is cheap.

 

[Private]

Thir reccomendation to use 50/50 mixture isnt to save coolant , it is to give proper freeze and boil protection. the corosion protection doea not come from the glycol it comes from the additives. The glycol is actually more corrosive than the water, and speeking of the water you should use deionized water rather than distilled water, it is less corrosive than the distilled water. Deionised water can be found in drug stores. Its not free but it is cheap.

What is the difference between distilled and deionized water?
How is deionized water made?

Thanks

 

[SnoMan]

What is the difference between distilled and deionized water?
How is deionized water made?

Thanks

Distilled in made by condesing evaporated water. Deionzed water is usually made by complex filtration which may include the usage of semipermiable membranes that let water through but not minerals in it. Distilled is its purest state generally.

 

[Box134]

Yep, it's pretty much "I'm right because I'm right." He lost me with his example of surface tension. It has nothing to do with layers of bubbles at all, at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension