Oil Change Light- 2004 VUE

Discussion in 'Saturn VUE' started by Wak215, Feb 1, 2005.

  1. Wak215

    Wak215 Guest

    Just curious to see how far any of you have gone before the change oil light
    has come on. I'm at 5,800 miles now...
     
    Wak215, Feb 1, 2005
    #1
  2. Wak215

    Chuck Guest

    Is that your initial 5,800 miles?
    I have an '03 FWD V6 w/ 39k mi. Did the first oil change at 1,000
    miles.
    I ignore that light and change the oil every 3k.
     
    Chuck, Feb 1, 2005
    #2
  3. Wak215

    blah blah Guest

    Agreed. Go every 4000 miles if you run synthetic. however the first 9000
    should be changed differently because its the engines break in period.
     
    blah blah, Feb 1, 2005
    #3
  4. Wak215

    C. E. White Guest

    I have been bast 7000 once, and 6000 twice. I have never
    actually waited for the light.

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Feb 1, 2005
    #4
  5. Wak215

    C. E. White Guest

    Waste of money.

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Feb 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Wak215

    Chuck Guest

    Maybe - but an oil change costs me about $12.50 and a half-hour of my
    time.
    Can't be any easier than on a VUE.
     
    Chuck, Feb 2, 2005
    #6
  7. Wak215

    Ron Herfurth Guest


    What do you mean by different? Are you saying the oil should be changed more
    frequently during the first 9000 miles or less frequently?

    ron
    94 SL1 - considering a 2006 VUE (but only if they bring back green)
     
    Ron Herfurth, Feb 2, 2005
    #7
  8. Wak215

    Bob Shuman Guest

    Break in period implies there will be need to change the oil more
    frequently. There are metal shavings, etc. from initial manufacturing that
    get released into the oil during break in. I've always followed a rigorous
    1,000 mile schedule for the initial oil and filter change on a new vehicle
    and then change them again at 2,000, then every 3,000 thereafter This makes
    it easy to remember when the oil needs to be changed since multiples of 3000
    are easy to calculate. And with 5 vehicles in the family simple is better.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Feb 2, 2005
    #8
  9. Wak215

    sturg57 Guest

    Never saw my Ions' oil life appear,& YES i've been changing on a
    regular basis.On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:33:04 -0500, "C. E. White"
     
    sturg57, Feb 3, 2005
    #9
  10. Wak215

    C. E. White Guest

    For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change guy.
    However, except for Jiffy Lube advertising, there is no
    reason to think this is really extending the life of your
    engine. The 3000 mile oil change recommendation has been
    around since I can first remember (1967 or so). Cars and oil
    are far better now, so I can't see that the old
    recommendation is sensible. I have family examples that
    indicate to me that I have always been too conservative. I
    have two Sisters who really don't care about cars. My older
    Sister is particularly disinterested in automobile
    maintenance. In the past she had her oil changed whenever I
    complained about her lack of car care (and I actually did
    the change). Her current Honda at least reminds her to
    change the oil with an odometer driven indicator. It goes
    red every 7500 miles. When this happens, she will actually
    tell me that her oil needs changing. Despite this, and her
    mostly stop and go driving pattern, she has never had any
    sort of engine problem related to oil (current 8 year old
    Honda's is over 110,000 miles). My other Sister does follow
    the published maintenance schedules and has the work done at
    the dealers. Likewise, she has never had any sort of problem
    related to engine oil. Her previous cars all made it well
    past 130k miles. Finally, we have a small farm. I have
    always changed the oil in the farm tractors based on engine
    hours, at the manufacturer's recommended intervals. Two of
    the three tractors specify 150 hours. I think this is
    roughly equivalent to 5000 miles (150 hours at 35 mph = 5250
    miles). The engines in farm tractors are worked much harder
    on average than automobile engines (but they are also well
    built diesels). Despite this none of our tractors has ever
    had an oil related engine failure. The older tractor (24
    years old) now has over 7000 hours (roughly equivalent to
    250,000 miles) and still runs well (and has the original
    turbo).

    I really like the idea that my Vue has an indicator that
    calculates oil life based on more than just miles. I've
    always though the normal and severe service definitions were
    fuzzy and open to a lot of interpretation. This is why I
    change the oil in my Ford every 3000 miles (Ford severe
    service schedule). I honestly do not think I am doing severe
    service, but the line is fuzzy. The Vue handles this for me.
    I am confident that as long as I change my oil at least as
    often as the light tell me to, I am fulfilling my warranty
    requirements and not reducing the life of my engine.

    I do agree that the Vue is one of the easiest cars I've ever
    had to change the oil on. I can do it in 15 minutes or so.
    Still, if it is not saving you any money in the long run,
    why double up on the oil changes? Assuming you are going to
    keep your Vue for 150,000 miles, 3000 mile oil changes
    instead of 6000 mile oil changes will cost you an extra $300
    and 6 hours of your life. Unless there is some saving
    associated with this, which I doubt there will be, is the
    feeling of accomplishment or peace of mind really worth and
    extra $300 and 6 hours every few years? If the answer is
    yes, then I can understand why you change the oil so often.
    For me the 3000 mile oil changes is a hard habit to break,
    but at least in the case of the Vue, GM gave me a good
    reason to break it.

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Feb 3, 2005
    #10
  11. Wak215

    Bob Shuman Guest

    I think this very much depends on the specific engine and its design. There
    are some engines on the market that are known to be more susceptible to oil
    feed and return passages plugging up if the oil is not changed very
    frequently. There are other designs that seem to be much more forgiving.
    The problem is that if you purchase a newer engine that has no previous
    history, then you have no way of knowing if it is truly "better" as you
    assume all newer engines are in your statement below. I personally think
    being safer is less expensive in the long run.

    Examples of two different engines from the same manufacturer (Chrysler) that
    have completely different histories on their internal reliability are the
    3.3L V6 and the 2.7L V6. Note that the newer design (the 2.7L V6) is the
    one that has the problem with oil sludging and early failure. I change mine
    every 3K miles just to be safe.

    Bob
     
    Bob Shuman, Feb 3, 2005
    #11
  12. Wak215

    blah blah Guest

    The chain oiler passage on 1.9's is susceptible to clogging and
    starving the timing chain. Would anyone recommend 7k oil changes on one
    of those? How do you know what motor oil everyone in this group is
    using? Should anyone that doesnt use a quality motor oil go that long on
    their oil? Should someone living in harsh enviromental conditions and
    weather changes go that long? Do you know if they drive there cars hard
    or not? Do you know if they tow?

    My point is what works fine for one person could be a disaster for
    another. You may think 130k out of a car is fine and thats EASY to do
    but I shoot for 500k. Oil and filter changes every 7k isnt going to cut
    it with Ohio's weather. Plus another reason 3k is the standard and
    should stay as such for the MAJORITY of people out there is because its
    the only way "problems" are caught. Some people dont know how to open
    their hoods and check their fluids. I've caught some VERY serious stuff
    doing oil changes for people. Had they kept gone any longer who knows if
    they would of ever made it into the shop.

    Besides catching problems we have yet to see a way of measuring the
    life of every brand of "oil filter" on the market. When does your oil
    filter get bypassed? At 6000 miles I say it gets bypassed for a good 10
    minutes until the oils warmed up enough to squeeze through there. Anyone
    mind telling me where the oil bypass light is on the dash? I have yet to
    see one.

    Btw comparing old tractors to cars doesnt really work for a number of
    reasons. For one they dont rev up anywhere near 7000 rpm.
     
    blah blah, Feb 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Wak215

    C. E. White Guest

    I don't recommend exceeding the vehicle manufacturer's
    recommended oil change intervals or using oil that does not
    meet the vehicle manufacturer's stated requirements. I also
    prefer the OE filters. In the case of the Vue I have little
    choice but to use the OE Filters.

    I believe (but can't prove), that most of the common cases
    of sludging in modern engines (most notably in certain
    Toyota engines) are the result of a faulty design. Still, I
    am certain that if the manufacturer's recommendations as to
    oil type and change interval are followed there will be very
    few problems with sludge formation.

    While it is true tractors don't spend much time at 7000 rpm,
    neither do most car engines. Most tractor engines spend
    significant periods of time at or near full throttle. Very
    few car engines do. All in all, I suspect tractors are far
    harder on the oil than most cars. Mine might set for weeks
    or even months without being started, and then be run wide
    open for 12 or 14 hours a day for a couple of weeks. Very
    few cars that aren't in the Dakar rally ever see dust like a
    farm tractor sees. I know it is not a perfect example, but I
    believe farm tractor highly stress engine oil.

    Oil change intervals are generally far longer in Europe. If
    Vauxhall can specify 10,000 mile oil changes for their cars
    that use the Ecotec engine, I am confident that 7500 oil
    changes are OK for my Vue as long as the oil life monitor
    agrees (7500 is the max it will allow).

    3000 mile oil changes shouldn't hurt anything but they
    probably aren't going to save you any money either. I know
    some shops really do a good job of checking things over when
    a car comes in for an oil change. However, from what I have
    seen of places like Jiffy Lube, it is far more likely that
    they will screw something up than that they will find a
    problem. The last time I used Jiffy Lube (1989) I had to
    forcibly stop them from pouring Type F Automatic
    transmission fluid into my Sable (it needed Type H aka
    Mercon). And even after I forced them to go get the right
    fluid, I had to redo the job myself to fix the transmission
    pan they warped by over tightening the bolts. That was the
    last time I let them touch one of my cars except to do a
    <bogus> vehicle inspection.

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Feb 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Wak215

    blah blah Guest

    Full throttle on any tractor is about 2100 RPM. I cant think of any
    tractors/heavy equipment/semi's that would or could go above that
    because their torque range is built in very low. So again tractors arent
    comparable. There is to many variables out there to say "hey dont change
    your oil so often". I've seen plenty of low mileage late model cars
    using "modern oils" with lots of varnish and caked on deposits on their
    dipsticks to know they dont do regular 3k-4k oil changes. To say
    sludging isnt a problem any more is news to me.
     
    blah blah, Feb 3, 2005
    #14
  15. Wak215

    Art Guest

    Some Toyota 6 cylinder engines are another examples of cars which tend to
    sludge up.
     
    Art, Feb 4, 2005
    #15
  16. Wak215

    Roy Guest

    I pay about $1700 per year on insurance. Why wouldn't I pay $60 a year for
    oil changes at 5000km/3months.

    The oil so far has been a better and more used investment.
     
    Roy, Feb 4, 2005
    #16
  17. Wak215

    C. E. White Guest

    You say you know "they don't do regular 3k-4k oil changes"
    but what makes you think they changed them inside the
    manufacturer's recommended interval? As I said before, I
    don't believe you should exceed the manufacturer's
    recommended interval. I did not mean to imply you can go
    forever without changing oil. In the case of my Vue, I am
    now at 29,000 miles. I changed the oil once at 1000 miles
    (old habit), again at 7500 miles, again at around 14,000
    miles, again at around 20,000 miles, and the last time at
    approximately 27,000 miles. In all cases the oil that came
    out looked good. I have no ugly deposits on the dip stick.
    What I can see inside the valve cover looks nice and clean.
    I have not actually waited for the "change oil soon" light
    to come on. I intend to wait for it, but it seems that I
    always find a reason for changing it early (free weekend,
    trip coming up, etc.).

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Feb 4, 2005
    #17
  18. Wak215

    C. E. White Guest

    How do you know this? What makes you think that you would
    have had more problems if you had followed the
    manufacturer's oil change intervals? At least with insurance
    there are some statistics that let you evaluate the cost,
    risk, and rewards. You are claiming a reward based on a lack
    of knowledge. Except for my Vue, I change the oil in my
    vehicles according to the severe service schedule. I do this
    becasue I really don't know what severe service is. I doubt
    that I really need to do this, but at least I can point to
    some back-up for the decision. The Vue's oil life monitor
    actually takes into account my driving pattern to calculate
    an oil change intervals. This removes much of the
    uncertainty. Why wouldn't you take advantage of this
    feature? Do you think GM has some secret agenda? What is the
    benefit to GM of stretching out oil change intervals? Fewer
    oil change jobs for their dealers? Fewer filters sold?
    Unhappy Customers becasue engines failed prematurely?

    When was the last time you had an oil related failure? I
    can't think of a single example of me, anyone in my family,
    or even a close friend who has had an oil related failure in
    the last 20 years. The last one I am persoanlly familar with
    was a co-worker who had a 1978 Oldsmobile 350. He followed
    the GM oil change intervals to the letter - changed the oil
    every 7500 miles and the filter every other oil change. He
    used Quaker State 10W40. When the car got around 60k miles
    he had to replace several rocker arms. Apparently this was a
    common problem on this engine. While we was working on the
    engine, he removed the intake and cleanded out the lifter
    valley. It was full of some sort of waxy mess. After that,
    he switched to Havoline, continued with his old 7500 mile
    oil change routine and never had another problem. Whether
    his problem was the oil, the engine, or the fact that he
    probably should have followed the severe service schedule
    (he drove 2 miles to work one way - lots of short trips), I
    can't say for certain. However this co-worker hasn't had a
    problem again with his engines despite sticking to the
    "normal" oil change intervals.

    Ed
     
    C. E. White, Feb 4, 2005
    #18
  19. Wak215

    Roy Guest

    I've had oil related failures with a couple of my 15 cars in the past. My
    father was a mechanic so while working with him I've seen lots of other
    engines that were the victim of neglect as well.

    I didn't say you were wrong to extend the period between oil changes or to
    trust the Vue's monitor. My point was that if I'm paying 1700 a year for
    insurance plus another $300 a month for the car itself why not dig deep and
    find $5 a month to pay for oil changes whether it needs it or not. I clean
    the dust out of my computer every month too. Sorry if I like to be cautious.

    Another reason I like to keep it new is mileage. My girlfriend has the same
    car, same engine, same year with about 5000km more on her odometer. Her oil
    changes are much less frequent than mine. I average 14.5km/L (34mpg) while
    she gets about 13km/L (30mpg). Granted there may be other factors there like
    driving style, highway vs city, etc...but at $0.94 per litre(44% of our gas
    is tax) $3.55 a gallon (2.84 USD at current exchange rate) if I can get any
    improvment to fuel efficiency I'll take it.

    Just to let you know my winter tires were down to about 35% tread left so
    last week I "threw away" $500 on some new ones. The difference in traction
    was like switching from all seasons to new Blizzaks. I figure I'll put the
    worn ones back on in the spring and wear away the rest of the tread during
    the spring, summer and fall (might even take a couple years to wear them
    down). There I go being cautious again.
     
    Roy, Feb 5, 2005
    #19
  20. Wak215

    blah blah Guest

    Saturn S Series

    Why regular oil changes are a must and why you should ignore the "oil
    change light".

    -Oil pressure is used as hydraulic fluid to ratchet up the timing chain
    tensioner.

    -If varnish forms in the timing chain tensioner bore then this system
    can fail and the chain will become loose and eventually break.


    Mechanics see the issues related to automakers "prolonged service
    intervals" every day. When people giving advice on oil actually work on
    cars for a living or pass the 500,000 mile mark on their odometer and
    still have as much pep in their engines as when they were new maybe then
    I'll listen to their "opinions".
     
    blah blah, Feb 5, 2005
    #20
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