New '06 models

[marx404]

We just got in a "secret" stash of 2006 ION and VUEs. First of all, I am
already impressed with the changes in the ION:

Optonal 2.4L engine has performance suspension and sportier sounding
exhaust. Engine has built-in oil cooler module.

ION & VUE:
New radio! Center large selector dial with tabbed red LCD display and better
sound. sweeet. Lots of chrome inside. A much more classy look for the VUE.
New 5 spoke wheels and wheel covers for the ION.

marx404

 

[B. Peg]

We just got in a "secret" stash of 2006 ION and VUEs. First of all, I am

already impressed with the changes in the ION:

Optonal 2.4L engine has performance suspension and sportier sounding
exhaust. Engine has built-in oil cooler module.

ION & VUE:
New radio! Center large selector dial with tabbed red LCD display and
better
sound. sweeet. Lots of chrome inside. A much more classy look for the VUE.
New 5 spoke wheels and wheel covers for the ION.

I had hoped that Saturn would have gotten on the hybrid (or any mileage
improvement means) stick by now since they hinted at it many years ago with
the supposedly hybrid VUE. Toyota will crush them next year when their
hybrid Camry 6 banger comes out. Of course, this is just mho, but with the
cost of gas rising what they do to their interiors while ignoring better
mileage figures of the hybrids won't help Saturn's sales.

As GM sinks even lower.........

B~

 

[Jonnie Santos]

I had hoped that Saturn would have gotten on the hybrid (or any mileage
improvement means) stick by now since they hinted at it many years ago with
the supposedly hybrid VUE. Toyota will crush them next year when their
hybrid Camry 6 banger comes out. Of course, this is just mho, but with the
cost of gas rising what they do to their interiors while ignoring better
mileage figures of the hybrids won't help Saturn's sales.

As GM sinks even lower.........

B~

My Tundra (Toyota) pickup with a small V8 gets 15-mpg's with a 27 gallon
tank. I spent $55 on my last fill-up (only 22 gallons). Next year
Toyota is coming out with an even bigger Tundra (I'm sure the mileage
will drop too). So their hybrids cater to one segment of the market and
also allow the continuation of vehicles like mine by maintaining the
overall (total) mile per gallon ratings of Toyota's fleet.

Hybrids sound neat to me, however you have to ask yourself what are they
going to do with all those batteries at the end of the life cycle's???
I'm not so sure it's such green-friendly technology after all - feels
like (emotionally) a shell game.

I think most will agree GM has problems, but I don't think a hybrid
Camary will crush them.

Maybe when my Tundra wears out Saturn will have finally come out with a
pickup. A flat-8 mounted under the truck bed, smart-all-wheel-drive,
polymer panels and made in Spring Hill!

 

[Ron Herfurth]

snip


Has anyone seen the new cypress green yet? I'm hoping it's just a little
darker than rainforest green.

ron 94 SL-1

 

[blah blah]

No worries, hybrids cost to much and dont meet EPA numbers. GM always
meets EPA numbers.

My Tundra (Toyota) pickup with a small V8 gets 15-mpg's with a 27 gallon
tank. I spent $55 on my last fill-up (only 22 gallons). Next year
Toyota is coming out with an even bigger Tundra (I'm sure the mileage
will drop too). So their hybrids cater to one segment of the market and
also allow the continuation of vehicles like mine by maintaining the
overall (total) mile per gallon ratings of Toyota's fleet.

Holy $#*#!
15mpg is worse than the EPA city rating! I keep telling people Jap cars
and trucks DO NOT meat their EPA ratings but no one seems to listen... A
Chevy Silverado makes more power, has a larger displacment, huals more,
and gets better gas mileage! Hence Japs cant make trucks. You would of
been WAY better off with a Chevy Colorado Jonnie. I'm sure it would of
hauled what ever you needed to haul and the 5cyl gets 23mpg on the
highway. I just wish the 5cyl came with a 5 speed manual option.

Hybrids sound neat to me, however you have to ask yourself what are they
going to do with all those batteries at the end of the life cycle's???
I'm not so sure it's such green-friendly technology after all - feels
like (emotionally) a shell game.

I think most will agree GM has problems, but I don't think a hybrid
Camary will crush them.

Batteries can be recycled. The problem with Hybrids is they are a money
pit! You spend more money than you could ever possibly save in fuel
cost. GM's problem, along with everyone else, is they expect to have
"RECORD SALES" every year... The market is to flooded! I cant see
replacing my 98 Bonneville for another 10 years. (not that I would ever
buy new)

Btw you hear about the Toyota(or honda?) hybrid stalling problem? I
think its been fixed but I'm sure it will return as these things become
more neglected with time... You also dont want to see my bill I'll be
charging for fixing these things in the years to come. >

Maybe when my Tundra wears out Saturn will have finally come out with a
pickup. A flat-8 mounted under the truck bed, smart-all-wheel-drive,
polymer panels and made in Spring Hill!

If GM's stupid enough to keep saturating the market they may do that...
In the mean time consider looking into a Colorado.

 

[Philip Nasadowski]

No worries, hybrids cost to much and dont meet EPA numbers. GM always
meets EPA numbers.

Hybrids aren't big sellers, nd even the optimists are now saying they
won't get much more than 10% of the total market...

In real life, hybrids just don't get that much better mileage. I bet
Toyota could have just taken the Prius's laughable 70hp motor, put it in
an Echo, gotten nearly the same EPA numbers. But it wouldn't have sold
because it'd be seen as what the Prius really is - a shitty gutless
Toyota.

Batteries can be recycled. The problem with Hybrids is they are a money
pit! You spend more money than you could ever possibly save in fuel
cost.

*ding!* They don't make economic sense. If you drive high miles,
you're mostly highway - Hybrids suck there. If you don't, the costs
NEVER outweight the savings, especially in normally hot or cold climates
where the engine runs all the time. It's the same reason why those
$1000 front load eco washers aren't worth it - you'll never save that
much water/electricity over the 4 year lifespan of them (a better idea -
make appliances that last 20 years, you'll save more energy)

Btw you hear about the Toyota(or honda?) hybrid stalling problem?

Which one? The Prius is a buggy car, and a pretty lethargic one at that.

If GM's stupid enough to keep saturating the market they may do that...
In the mean time consider looking into a Colorado.

GM's biggest issue now is interior fit/finish, and lack of a nice RWD
sedan platform or two. And B-O-R-I-N-G styling....

 

[marx404]

I haven't seen any new colors yet, they should start appearing soon.

As far as hybrids, do check out Saturnfans.com where there are pics of the
hybris VUE that they have been working on. Supposedly, I hear that Saturn
has been silently working on hybrids for years, but just has not found a way
to make them efficient, safe, reliable or affordable.

marx404

 

[Jonnie Santos]

No worries, hybrids cost to much and dont meet EPA numbers. GM always
meets EPA numbers.





Holy $#*#!
15mpg is worse than the EPA city rating! I keep telling people Jap cars
and trucks DO NOT meat their EPA ratings but no one seems to listen... A
Chevy Silverado makes more power, has a larger displacment, huals more,
and gets better gas mileage! Hence Japs cant make trucks. You would of
been WAY better off with a Chevy Colorado Jonnie. I'm sure it would of
hauled what ever you needed to haul and the 5cyl gets 23mpg on the
highway. I just wish the 5cyl came with a 5 speed manual option.

I can't get past those arched eyebrows (fender lines) on the
Colorado/Canyon - same for the new Tacoma - yuk.

But it's up 2 mpg's from the '04's (grin). The '05's have 282hp/325lbs,
and it's total overkill for trips to the landfill or taking the dogs to
the vet. It did bring home a new BBQ from Home Depot over the holiday -
so I guess the extra hp and torque came in handy!

I have been kinda interested in a boat to pull - but so far the money is
just not there to support and this old house needs waaaay too much work
before spending/borrowing that kinda of dollars.

The tech who works on our fork trucks etc, told me Toyota's suck fuel.
But I really don't drive much, so mpg's isn't an issue (yet).

Objectively I think Toyota's best effort was their standard size (small)
pickup. The 4 banger was just awesome from stories and people I've
spoke with. I just didn't want another small pickup - I got rid of a 20
year old Isuzu that would NOT die.

We'll see how my V8 with 9,000 valves, 20 cams and variable valve timing
does. I've read something about a piston slap issue, but don't know how
common that is - of course there's a whole tirade going on the the GM
camp with one of the V8's and piston slap too. Whatever...

I originally wanted a Titan with more hp, but I kept reading about
inconsistent build quality and I didn't want to play roulette with my money.

As it was the '05 Tundra has an improved autobox (5th/OD was a prob in
older Tundras) as well as braking issues (gee, what were they thinking).

This is my first Toyota - I still miss the old Saturn and the dealer.

Batteries can be recycled. The problem with Hybrids is they are a money
pit! You spend more money than you could ever possibly save in fuel
cost. GM's problem, along with everyone else, is they expect to have
"RECORD SALES" every year... The market is to flooded! I cant see
replacing my 98 Bonneville for another 10 years. (not that I would ever
buy new)

Btw you hear about the Toyota(or honda?) hybrid stalling problem? I
think its been fixed but I'm sure it will return as these things become
more neglected with time... You also dont want to see my bill I'll be
charging for fixing these things in the years to come. >




If GM's stupid enough to keep saturating the market they may do that...
In the mean time consider looking into a Colorado.

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to what Saturn is supposed to be since
it's been mainlined like other GM products. Not so different anymore.

Do you know what ever happened to the rear suspension issue on the VUE?
And what's the consensus with the Honda V6 they're using? I read it's
a bastard to service (regarding plug changes).

 

[blah blah]

I can't get past those arched eyebrows (fender lines) on the
Colorado/Canyon - same for the new Tacoma - yuk.

Hey I like the side profile of the Colorados & Canyons...

But it's up 2 mpg's from the '04's (grin). The '05's have 282hp/325lbs,
and it's total overkill for trips to the landfill or taking the dogs to
the vet. It did bring home a new BBQ from Home Depot over the holiday -
so I guess the extra hp and torque came in handy!

You're joking right?
That reminds me, you see that truck commercial that goes something like
"now that the new tundra/Tacoma has more power what will you do?" The
one guy says "get my tools back" and so he rips down a garage door and
grabs a small tool chest... All I could do is laugh at how unimpressive
that commercial was because EVERYTHING done in that commercial could be
done with my "carrrrrrr". <roles eyes>
The stuff I've had to haul and the stuff my father hauls is what trucks
are ment for. 2500lbs vertical mills and other large machinery,
motorcycles, engines, and everything else that would break most wanna be
trucks. You'll often hear people who drive the heavy duty trucks, like a
2500 w/Duramax, say their truck is dumber than a box of rocks. Why's
that? Because it has no idea if its pulling a load or not. Like it aint
even there... Little or no effect on gas mileage... I know my dads 2500
5.7L always seemed to run and handle better when it's hauling a load.

I have been kinda interested in a boat to pull - but so far the money is
just not there to support and this old house needs waaaay too much work
before spending/borrowing that kinda of dollars.

The tech who works on our fork trucks etc, told me Toyota's suck fuel.
But I really don't drive much, so mpg's isn't an issue (yet).

Objectively I think Toyota's best effort was their standard size (small)
pickup. The 4 banger was just awesome from stories and people I've
spoke with. I just didn't want another small pickup - I got rid of a 20
year old Isuzu that would NOT die.

Yeah but other than sticking 300 pounds in the back of them what do you
have?

We'll see how my V8 with 9,000 valves, 20 cams and variable valve timing
does. I've read something about a piston slap issue, but don't know how
common that is - of course there's a whole tirade going on the the GM
camp with one of the V8's and piston slap too. Whatever...

I originally wanted a Titan with more hp, but I kept reading about
inconsistent build quality and I didn't want to play roulette with my money.

As it was the '05 Tundra has an improved autobox (5th/OD was a prob in
older Tundras) as well as braking issues (gee, what were they thinking).

This is my first Toyota - I still miss the old Saturn and the dealer.
snip


Yeah, I'm a little confused as to what Saturn is supposed to be since
it's been mainlined like other GM products. Not so different anymore.

I would like for them to go back to a simple line of inexpensive cars
like the S-series but with RWD. $12K base to $18K tops. Ecotecs would of
been great in a S-series.

Do you know what ever happened to the rear suspension issue on the VUE?
And what's the consensus with the Honda V6 they're using? I read it's
a bastard to service (regarding plug changes).

Vue recalled, all should be pretty much fixed by now I think. Marx might
know more about it. Honda's have always been a bastard to service.
Everythings in the way of everything. There are only a handful of
engines in production that I will encourage people to buy. Everyone
wants to look at styling first, I look at the powertrain first. They
must think I'm pushing them only because I make money off of them or
something. I'll make my money either way. I just want to make it easier
on "myself" which is usually easier on your wallet...

 

[B. Peg]

"marx404"wrote:

As far as hybrids, do check out Saturnfans.com where there are pics of the
hybris VUE that they have been working on. Supposedly, I hear that Saturn
has been silently working on hybrids for years, but just has not found a
way
to make them efficient, safe, reliable or affordable.

They've been talking about their Saturn hybrid for years, but still nothing
and I doubt if anything will occur in the next few years. The fanfare would
precede it for months, but GM is silent so I doubt if they are really trying
to do anything to circumvent Toyota or second place Honda in the hybrid war.
Supposedly Toyota is licensing their first generation hybrid technology to
Ford which will keep Toyota at the head of the pack for some time if
American car maker's cannot figure out how to do it as Toyota has.

For the naysayers, look over the Prius forum. One guy has the record of 111
mpg on his hybrid. Beats my neighbor's Ram truck's 9 mpg Hemi all to hell.
Neighbor bitched about paying $150 to drive from one town and back in
California. Try going to a Toyota dealer and buying one. Ours gets maybe
12 hybrid cars in and they are gone within the week while others (Camry,
Corolla, etc. sit on the lot). Every time the price jumps 20 cents, the
cars sell out.

Fwiw, I test drove the Prius a few months ago and was surprised at the power
delivered from the electric motors (very similar to the Camry), but my test
car's LCD screen showed 48 mpg which makes me a novice in controlling the
gas engine's cut-in. The CA warranty had the battery as a sever year free
replacement due to the battery being assigned to the smog-side of the
equation. Still, it would be costly to replace outside of the warranty but
the dealer insists for high mileage drivers it won't matter. I've heard
their odd transmission is very costly too ($9000 or so) and only available
out of Japan. It really is a high tech car and maybe will run into some
high-tech bills as well in time.

I prefer the Ram truck truth be known. Even insurance between the two
(Prius vs. Ram) was only $20 or so (about $1200 normal one year from So. CA
Auto Club for either per my checking quotes). However, shoving $150 a day
for commuting/travel gas in a Dodge RAM sadly leaves me no option for one.
Need to hit at least 30 mpg to feel comfortable with the gas and commutes I
do.

B~

 

[Ron Herfurth]

We just got in a "secret" stash of 2006 ION and VUEs. First of all, I am
already impressed with the changes in the ION:

Optonal 2.4L engine has performance suspension and sportier sounding
exhaust. Engine has built-in oil cooler module.

ION & VUE:
New radio! Center large selector dial with tabbed red LCD display and better
sound. sweeet. Lots of chrome inside. A much more classy look for the VUE.
New 5 spoke wheels and wheel covers for the ION.

marx404

Does the 2006 4 door ION sedan have a fold flat front passenger seat or is
that still just in the 2 door?
ron

 

[no one]

Gas savings don't pay for the price deference. MSN has had comparisons between the small hybrids and the Hummer H1.
I haven't seen any new colors yet, they should start appearing soon.

As far as hybrids, do check out Saturnfans.com where there are pics of the
hybris VUE that they have been working on. Supposedly, I hear that Saturn
has been silently working on hybrids for years, but just has not found a way
to make them efficient, safe, reliable or affordable.

marx404

 

[Michael Halliwell]

Gas savings don't pay for the price deference. MSN has had comparisons
between the small hybrids and the Hummer H1.

I haven't seen any new colors yet, they should start appearing soon.

As far as hybrids, do check out Saturnfans.com where there are pics
of the
hybris VUE that they have been working on. Supposedly, I hear that
Saturn
has been silently working on hybrids for years, but just has not
found a way
to make them efficient, safe, reliable or affordable.

marx404

About the only hybrid I'd be seriously looking at (provided it hits
production) is the Mercury Meta 1. Diesel electric has been around for
ages (just look at you local railway yard) and, at least in large scale,
it seems to get the job done.

I think that a better choice these days, provided the north american
regulators get on board, is ultra low sulphur diesel. There are some
killer sweet diesel engines in europe that I'd take over a hybrid any
day...but they'd die a fairly quick and horribly painful death with the
garbage we call diesel over here.

As for the trucks....I've driven a good number of all the ones mentioned
here at work. The Colorados/Canyons are nice, though they are a medium
sized (as compared to the old S-10 small) truck. I find the Dakotas
bigger, but they sound tinny and don't get as nice mileage with the
small 8 as the I-5 does. The Tundra I had wasn't bad, but I have to
agree, for a full size, go domestic....we really have done a better job
with them....not to say that the toyota won't go on for years and
years...it is just that we have better idea of what a truck is and what
it is used for.

Cheers,

Michael Halliwell

 

[Art]

Hybrids aren't big sellers, nd even the optimists are now saying they
won't get much more than 10% of the total market...

In real life, hybrids just don't get that much better mileage. I bet
Toyota could have just taken the Prius's laughable 70hp motor, put it in
an Echo, gotten nearly the same EPA numbers. But it wouldn't have sold
because it'd be seen as what the Prius really is - a shitty gutless
Toyota.


*ding!* They don't make economic sense. If you drive high miles,
you're mostly highway - Hybrids suck there. If you don't, the costs
NEVER outweight the savings, especially in normally hot or cold climates
where the engine runs all the time. It's the same reason why those
$1000 front load eco washers aren't worth it - you'll never save that
much water/electricity over the 4 year lifespan of them

Our Maytag Neptune front loader is 9 years old now and the only repair it
needed was a free upgrade provided by Maytag to replace circuit board and
provide a door seal with drain. Major advantage to front loaders is that
you can wash a king size comforter without it floating in the washer.

 

[Jonnie Santos]

Our Maytag Neptune front loader is 9 years old now and the only repair it
needed was a free upgrade provided by Maytag to replace circuit board and
provide a door seal with drain. Major advantage to front loaders is that
you can wash a king size comforter without it floating in the washer.

Got a Kenmore top load set about the same age, looking to replace with
front loader in the new few years. I've only replaced a level switch in
the washer to date, but am due for something in the dryer as it's
starting to get noisy. I'm currently buying the Tide cold water wash
concentrate thinking washing in cold will save a couple of bucks (we
have a rooftop solar water heater, but it's got a 9,000 watt electric
backup to keep the temp up on cloudy days - seems expensive to operate).

 

[B. Peg]

Hybrids aren't big sellers, nd even the optimists are now saying they
won't get much more than 10% of the total market...

??

Explain then why Toyota cannot produce those hybrids fast enough. Sure
didn't stop their Lexus hybrid nor Toyota's reluctance to build a new plant
for their Camry 2006 hybrid or the Outback hybrid SUV.

In real life, hybrids just don't get that much better mileage.

??

So the guy in the Toyota Prius forum who is getting 111 mpg is wasting gas?
Surely you jest. Even with it getting a wasteful 49-50 mpg (which seems
average) it still beats any other thing out there.

I bet Toyota could have just taken the Prius's laughable 70hp motor, put
it in
an Echo, gotten nearly the same EPA numbers. But it wouldn't have sold
because it'd be seen as what the Prius really is - a shitty gutless
Toyota.

Try driving one if you think it's gutless. I have driven it and it
accelerates like hell with the electrics. Local dealer sends his
salespeople to LA over a mountain called the Grapevine from Central Valley
and got it up to 104 mph with 4 people in it.

*ding!* They don't make economic sense. If you drive high miles,
you're mostly highway - Hybrids suck there. If you don't, the costs
NEVER outweigh the savings, especially in normally hot or cold climates
where the engine runs all the time.

What a load. If you look at the mileage numbers of some of the used 2001
models, they have over 100,000 miles on them. What loss? If you tend to
toss a vehicle every 2-3 years maybe, but if you hold onto it for 5-7 you'll
come out ahead. Besides, what stops a person from buying a pickup, say a
Dodge Ram Hemi verses a cheaper Nissan Titan (a $10,000 difference) when the
Titan gets better mileage? You could say you're wasting money on the Dodge
couldn't you? Paying a lease, for what amounts as a rental, could be seen
as wasteful too. To be fair, you need to compare it to an equivalent model
like a non-hybrid Prius. Remember the base price is around $21,000 or
similar to the Camry, but loading it up with all the electronic goodies
(GPS, etc) runs it, and any other model, up really quick to around $28,000.

Besides, the fuel savings "alone" on the hybrid is worth something to
future generations, regardless of cost. If the price of gas rises, then
you'' come out ahead if you hold onto the vehicle until 100,000 miles or
more. A three-fold mpg efficiency and the eco-savings negates the price of
any non-hybrid. Not to mention those with a $2-3K Gas-Guzzler Tax" imposed
(usually applied to the higher priced exotics over $70,000).

B~

It's the same reason why those
$1000 front load eco washers aren't worth it - you'll never save that
much water/electricity over the 4 year lifespan of them (a better idea -
make appliances that last 20 years, you'll save more energy)

Yes. It was a software problem and has been corrected.

In time, the hybrid's price will fall. Same hold true for just about
anything. Try and buy a mechanical watch cheaper than an electronic.

GM's biggest issue now is interior fit/finish, and lack of a nice RWD
sedan platform or two. And B-O-R-I-N-G styling....

I agree on that one. Always loved Ford's styling, just their lousy engines
and powertrains I had problems with.

B~

 

[Jonnie Santos]

??

Explain then why Toyota cannot produce those hybrids fast enough. Sure
didn't stop their Lexus hybrid nor Toyota's reluctance to build a new plant
for their Camry 2006 hybrid or the Outback hybrid SUV.




??

So the guy in the Toyota Prius forum who is getting 111 mpg is wasting gas?
Surely you jest. Even with it getting a wasteful 49-50 mpg (which seems
average) it still beats any other thing out there.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/103708/article.html

 

[Art]

Got a Kenmore top load set about the same age, looking to replace with
front loader in the new few years. I've only replaced a level switch in
the washer to date, but am due for something in the dryer as it's starting
to get noisy. I'm currently buying the Tide cold water wash concentrate
thinking washing in cold will save a couple of bucks (we have a rooftop
solar water heater, but it's got a 9,000 watt electric backup to keep the
temp up on cloudy days - seems expensive to operate).

The dryer is probably easy to fix. Post the model number on alt.home.repair
and you will probably get the help you need on dissasmbly and parts
required. If you are talking an electric dryer though, Kenmore has a best
buy according to Consumer Reports that sells for around $350 so repairing
old one may not be worth it even if easy.