more Saturn complaints (casting flaws cause cracked heads)

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by misterfact, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. misterfact

    misterfact Guest


    When we at GM discover an epidemic costly flaw in our cars (like
    casting flaws in our cylinder heads that will cause the head to
    eventually CRACK); and before we become aware of the problem, tens of
    thousands of cars with the flaw have gone off the assembly line to
    dealers and customers

    We withold that information (sending out a service notice) for as
    as we can- so as to get as many of those cars affected, OVER the
    warranty period. That way, we are not liable to cover the cost of the
    repair or replacement and we are able to cut our loses!

    Also: If a new car customer who has been taking his car to the dealer
    for regular scheduled maintainance, CHANGES ADDRESS, and the dealer
    fails to notify the company of the new address and because of this
    dealer failure- we send out a service notice to the old address and
    thus the notice never reaches the customer:

    When the service notice is returned to us as "undeliverable"; we will
    NOT make any attempt to reach the customer at his new address and
    notify him of the service notice. We are not liable for our dealer's
    failure nor will we take any action against our dealer for this
    in an attempt to compensate the customer,should he have been unaware
    the notice and suffers a costly repair bill after his warranty has

    Anyone who doubts the above policy can contact (among many others):
    Grand Rapids (Michigan) Saturn.

    (That is; if anyone there admits his knowledge of and has the COURAGE
    to verify the above policy)

    Michael Cohrman

    The above policy is known by many but I have never seen it posted
    anywhere. If you want to verify or deny the above policy from your
    experience- please do!

    Want specific examples of GM witholding costly information on their
    cars? Contact:

    Patricia of Bath ME (9/15/03):
    Cylinder head cracked, Saturn is aware there is a problem but their
    position is, if it didn't happen in 6 years or 100,000 miles
    came first) I'm out of luck. Of course the local dealer will fix it
    $1,800. I own a 1994 Saturn SW1 with 94,502 miles. The service
    bullentin came out in 1999. I believe that they knew it to be a
    in the parts they used and it should be fixed no matter what the age
    the car.

    Of couse they would like the public to think that after their
    the car will never have the problem or by magic it will repair
    If the only humans worked this way after 6 years all birth defects
    would just disappear. What a wonderful world it would be. All I have
    say is -- dream on, Saturn. I can't wait to get the car fixed and
    it in for another car.

    Re: GM standard operating proceedure [ To: misterfact | Post
    296013896, reply to 296013865 ] (Score: 2)

    Cylinder head cracked, Saturn is aware there is a problem but their
    position is, if it didn't happen in 6 years or 100,000 miles
    (whichever came first) I'm out of luck.

    (think I'm going to buy a Toyota pickup. I've always been a Dodge man,
    and I'd love to have a new Cummins, but I think I'm done with American
    auto companies.

    I think I want a Toyota or a Nissan, club cab, full size. Something my
    dogs can ride in with me.



    Saturn recalls

    01/18/08 09:54 AM
    Re: GM standard operating proceedure [ To: Jhoffa_ | Post
    296013960, reply to 296013929 ] (Score: 1)

    Saturn has made over 100,000 cars with casting flaws in their cylinder
    heads. The flaw causes the head to crack- usually after the warranty

    This figure was given to me by a Saturn "insider".

    We were very happy with our Saturn until the warranty ran out. As far
    as I am concerned these lemons have built in flaws.With only 56000
    miles and a dedicated maintanance regime we now face a $4000.00 repair
    cost for replacing something on just about everything. Speed sensor,
    transmission valve and a computer overhaul. We thought we had made a
    good choice when we bought this car 6 years ago. My wife loved it. We
    were treated great by all the staff at Saturn and it seemed to us that
    we were getting a fine automobile......Then the warranty ran out and
    so did all the friendlyness. We now face a bill almost 1/4 the size of
    what we paid for it originaly. We are going to do the minimum to get
    it running and dump this turkey. We have started looking around for a
    minivan and believe me, it won't be a Saturn. They should be ashamed
    of themselves for foisting an inferior product on trusting people.
    (But I doubt they are.)

    Constant problems with the air conditioning.I bet you've read that one
    before. Things start falling apart after the warranty expires. too
    many built in flaws in my opinion.

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    04/12/08 09:53 AM
    Re: GM standard operating proceedure [ To: misterfact | Post
    296172871, reply to 296013865 ] (Score: 1)

    Dear Mister Fact;
    misterfact, Apr 12, 2008
  2. misterfact

    Steve Guest

    Mister Fact -- Mister Misinformation would be more accurate.

    Steve, Apr 12, 2008
  3. misterfact

    marx404 Guest

    more Mr. Fag.....

    Please do not feed this troll.

    I work for Saturn and not a word of this unreadable garbage is true as those
    who own a Saturn already know.

    Please do not feed this troll.
    marx404, Apr 14, 2008
  4. misterfact

    misterfact Guest

    They sure keep you busy in the repair dept don't they?
    misterfact, Apr 16, 2008
  5. misterfact

    Steve Guest

    Good advice!
    Are you implying that you believe that Saturn engines have not had a "cracked head" problem? If so, I would suggest
    you need to talk to your dealer's service department and/ or more customers. If you are implying that "MisterFact" is
    grossly exaggerating and possibly lying outright about GM's handling of the problem, then I'm inclined to agree with
    you. :)
    Steve, Apr 16, 2008
  6. misterfact

    marx404 Guest

    Steve I'm sure that most here already know of the many issues the 1.9L
    engine had, but it's not an epidemic, trust me. The 1.9 in question hasn't
    been made in over 6 years, so what is the point of Mr. Fag slamming
    Saturn on this (and everything else) ? Nevermind, he is a troll and has no
    life. Either Mr. Fag is a disgruntled customer or ex-employee and a retard
    (no insult to the retarded) My point is Mr. Fag isn't welcome to troll here.
    Don't feed the troll.
    marx404, Apr 17, 2008
  7. If anyone wants to know how twisted MisterAct is just research his post
    archived in Google Groups. He gets his ass handed to him regularly but
    he keeps posting the same discredited crap so repeatedly that it has
    become "epidemic". The replies are pretty funny and must humiliate
    Misteract to no end.

    I think my next car will be a Saturn.
    If I can find what I like made in the States that is.
    misterfactLIES, Apr 17, 2008
  8. misterfact

    SMS Guest

    He got 100,000 miles out of a GM product. If he wanted a longer lasting
    vehicle he could have bought one. No one was holding a gun to his head
    and forcing him to buy a Saturn. Many people buy a vehicle with the full
    intention of keeping it for more than six years or 100K miles, but most
    of these people are smart enough to do a little research prior to making
    a purchase. Even before the casting flaw was discovered, Saturn's engine
    reliability problems were legendary and well-documented. "Misterfact"
    apparently did no pre-purchase research, and when this backfired on him
    he went non-linear.

    Marx404 is trying to sell Saturns, you can't blame him for wanting to
    gloss over what happened in the past, and get upset when anyone brings
    it up. The fact is that those early owners that couldn't get their
    vehicles fixed under the recall (or whatever GM called it) are unlikely
    to ever buy a Saturn or GM car again, and a few of them are upset enough
    about their loss to complain about it forever. OTOH, those that were
    covered and got their vehicles fixed are probably big fans of Saturn and
    GM for "doing the right thing."

    The current Saturn models bear no relation to the ones with the casting
    flaws. However it's still instructive to look at the Alldata TSB lists
    for competing models of vehicles of recent vintage as part of evaluating
    which vehicles to buy (see "").

    Also look at the JD Power Long Term Dependability studies. While a good
    rating for three year dependability doesn't necessarily imply a good ten
    year rating, a poor three year dependability rating probably does imply
    a poor ten year rating. It's interesting that 2004 (for 2001 models) is
    the last year that Saturn was ranked above the industry average in


    Saturn has some nice vehicles now, but those looking for a vehicle to
    keep for a long period of time would be advised to be wary.
    SMS, Apr 17, 2008
  9. misterfact

    Brian Guest

    What issues do the 1.9's have ???? I just bought a 95 SL1 with 146,000 and it runs good.
    What can I look forward to in the future ???

    Brian, Apr 17, 2008
  10. Oh boy its Steven M. Scharf! Everyone bow down to his trollness!

    Steven M. Scharf's knowledge on cars is just one step above
    Misteracts... IOW it also holds no value.
    Wont do you a damn bit of good. Toyota hides or wont allow most of its
    TSB's to be shown on Alldata. Most of GM's TSB's tell techs how to
    reinstall molding or trim and other trivial things. From my research on
    you its clear you're far from qualified to tell people anything about
    cars. It seems you simply regurgitate things you hear with bias.
    misterfactLIES, Apr 17, 2008
  11. misterfact

    Steve Guest

    The main issue, as far as I am aware, is the casting flaw that caused oil and coolant to mix either in the oil
    crankcase or the coolant system. If your SL has over 100,000 miles, chances are this flaw has either been caught and
    corrected or (more likely) your engine did not suffer from this flaw. There are other, less serious, problems such as
    wrong plug gapping and fuel pump but, again, your car has either had them and they've been fixed or your car never had
    them. I would expect that as long as you ensure your SL gets regular maintenance (especially timing chain replacement),
    the only problems you can expect are those endemic to all older cars.
    Steve, Apr 17, 2008
  12. misterfact

    Brian Guest

    Does the timing chain break ???? I would figure a chain would last the life of the car, unlike

    Brian, Apr 17, 2008
  13. misterfact

    DLR Guest

    A timing CHAIN is made up of a few 100 metal links that rub and rotate against each other. They are designed to do this and oil is continuously applied. But over time they will wear gradually and play will develop. Modern (last 20 years) engines are designed to deal with a bit of this play but at some point they need to be replaced. If they break bad things can happen.

    As to lasting the life of the car, when we drove cars 100K miles or less, well they usually did. (A 10 year old car with 100K miles in the 60s was usually a clunker worth little more than scrap.) I own cars with 210K, 135K, and 190K miles on them. "Life" has a new meaning than in days of old.

    David Ross
    DLR, Apr 17, 2008
  14. misterfact

    satyr Guest

    Consumer Reports shows that Saturns generally range from a little
    worse than average (Ion, Vue) to a lot worse than average (Relay,
    Sky). GM managed to start a cult with Saturn, but no one is drinking
    the Cool-Ade anymore.
    satyr, Apr 18, 2008
  15. misterfact

    SMS Guest

    It's not a scheduled maintenance item like a belt, but it doesn't last
    forever. Chain breakage has been a problem for some owners due to
    problems with the timing chain tensioner system. Clean oil is
    essential for the timing chain tensioner on older Saturns to work

    Generally you should replace the chain and the tensioner every 100,000
    miles. If you have a 1995 with 146K miles then chances are the
    previous owner already replaced the chain once.
    SMS, Apr 18, 2008
  16. misterfact

    SMS Guest

    Judging from this thread, at least a couple of people still are
    drinking it. BTW, it's Kool-Aid. Still, I think that Misterfact should
    direct his energy to more worthwhile projects. Trying to convince
    people to not buy Saturns based on what happened with the casting flaw
    so many years ago, is not going to be a very productive use of his

    I haven't seen any new Saturns around my area. The dealership near me
    closed up shop several years ago, and I think people are reluctant to
    buy vehicles when there is no dealer close by. The current Saturns are
    probably no worse than other GM vehicles, but other than trucks, who's
    buying anything from GM? The local GM (Chevy) dealer in my town closed
    up unexpectedly one day, and eventually they sold the building and a
    huge Whole Foods went in. In March 2008, Toyota sold 40,487 Camrys,
    and Saturn sold 6,241 Auras, and that was a 12.9% increase for Saturn.
    SMS, Apr 18, 2008
  17. misterfact

    SMS Guest

    I'm not sure which is worse; "Misterfact" repeatedly posting about his
    problem with his Saturn years after he experienced it, or a current
    Saturn salesperson calling a former Saturn owner a fag and a retard.

    At least Al Clapsaddle had some class.
    SMS, Apr 18, 2008
  18. misterfact

    BläBlä Guest

    Funny how the troll trio reappears after all this time...

    Misterfact, a senile old man that is desperatly trying to make an impact
    somewhere in life after clearly accomplishing nothing thus far. Spends
    his time ranting like a dictator and trying to turn victim's into

    Satyr, an athiest that spends more time bashing religion than a preacher
    could ever spend talking about God. How nice of him to grace us again
    with his presents. Yeah those darn cults... I mean, how dare anyone
    worship God or Saturn when they could be worshiping him. Now shutup you
    peasants and drink the Satyr-Aid.

    Steven Scharf, an arrogant fellow that thinks his own farts don't stink.
    Spends his time complaining about inexpensive products not being on par
    with higher priced products.

    A clipping pulled from a webpage by Scharf, long gone now.
    "About the Webmaster
    Steve Scharf has been researching and writing about Saturn since 1995.
    He is a frequent poster to the Usenet newsgroup
    where he is one of the most knowledgeable and well-respected
    contributors. His other interests include bicycling, cross-country
    skiing, hiking, woodworking, electronics design, coffee, and travel. His
    other web sites can be viewed at"
    In all the time I've been here no one ever respected Scharf and his
    knowledge was always lifted from other peoples post and distorted in the
    process, including mine.
    lol internet trolls...
    BläBlä, Apr 19, 2008
  19. misterfact

    BläBlä Guest

    Unlike a belt, a chain very likely give you fair warning that it is
    about to fail. Excessive noise and engine performance will appear. My
    experience with chains is that a well lubricated chain will out last the
    car. (Especially where roads are salted.) The people who generally have
    problems didn't do proper oil changes. Yes the chains on S-series
    engines do last more than 200k miles. Its been discussed here in the
    BläBlä, Apr 19, 2008
  20. misterfact

    BläBlä Guest

    I dont believe 95' SOHC engines were effected by casting flaws. Only 3-4
    years were effected. This is something that Misterhidethefacts wont ever
    BläBlä, Apr 19, 2008
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