Manual shifter break-in period

[marx404]

Is there a point where my '07 ION will become easier to shift? I cringe when
shifting as it feels like it takes more force on this shifter than say an
old '03 ION to put the shifter from gear to gear. Is there an expected
break-in period on this shifter or is this a newer type of shifter than on
an '03 ION and it just shifts crappy?

 

[oppie]

As the clutch surface wears in, only the friction point range should
change - the clutch pedal distance from starting to grab to fully engaged.
As it wears in, this distance decreases. Should have absolutely no effect on
pedal force.

They might be using a heavier pressure plate spring or different mechanical
advantage in the pedal to release arm.

Oppie

 

[marx404]

Heres a CC of my post to SaturnFans, hopefully this is more helpful info,
didnt get much info there, maybe someone here can look at it here:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I have driven many manual shift IONs and wonder what the ^*&%$# is going
on with my new '07 sedan. I have had it 3.5 months and it has 4K miles on
it. I drive sporty, but have never dogged on the shifter. (I haven't driven
stick in yrs so I have had a couple of learning curve troubles which the
tranny quickly and audibly corrected me on, driving much better now, thank
you).

Getting from 1st to 2nd feels like I have to pull the shift lever with
unnecessary force. Other gears are OK and quite smooth as far as an
unbroken-in tranny. Is this a normal feeling for a new manual tranny or are
my arms just getting weak or will this shifter become easier as it breaks
in?

I have compared other new manual IONs on the lot as well as an '03 ION
(which pleasingly went into all gears nicely) and mine just feels tough to
get into 2nd gear.
TIA.

marx404

 

[oppie]

Time to reboot my brain...
Don't know how I managed to reply to a shifting question with a clutch pedal
effort answer.

Let me ask - how does the shifting feel with the engine off and the clutch
in? Either the clutch may not be totally disengaging and the syncros are
fighting the engagement or the synchros are dragging on their shafts. If you
feel like changing the transmission fluid, check for brass particles. Is
there a magnetic drain plug used on this car?

Oppie

As the clutch surface wears in, only the friction point range should
change - the clutch pedal distance from starting to grab to fully engaged.
As it wears in, this distance decreases. Should have absolutely no effect
on pedal force.

They might be using a heavier pressure plate spring or different
mechanical advantage in the pedal to release arm.

Oppie

 

[marx404]

Shifting feels fine and easy with the engine off and the clutch pressed in.
When the engine is on however, the shifter is most hard getting into 2nd
gear and sometimes wont allow me if the RPM or engine speed isn't "exactly"
where it wants to be, even though the shift light on the dash comes on
telling me to shift. No clue if there is a magnetic drain plug.

This is a brand new car, so I wont be doing any work myself, however, the
techs at my dealership suck and wont address a problem unless they feel it
is obvious to them. (Case in point, my appliqués were rattling techs were
clueless, I posted here, got an answer, told the techs what to fix.) It
seems like protocol, I have to tell the techs what the problem is to get
them to fix it. Only dealership around for 100 mi. :-(

marx404

Time to reboot my brain...
Don't know how I managed to reply to a shifting question with a clutch
pedal effort answer.

Let me ask - how does the shifting feel with the engine off and the clutch
in? Either the clutch may not be totally disengaging and the syncros are
fighting the engagement or the synchros are dragging on their shafts. If
you feel like changing the transmission fluid, check for brass particles.
Is there a magnetic drain plug used on this car?

Oppie

 

[Oppie]

I would get the shop to change the transmission oil - for starters at least.
Since you can shift the transmission easilly with the engine off, seems
reasonable that it is a clutch or synchro issue. How about reverse gear?
Reverse on most cars does not have a synchro (they assume that you are
stopped when shifting into rev). If it is a clutch disengagement issue, you
should grind a bit trying to get it into reverse.

You mentioned in a separate thread about a creak in the clutch pedal. May be
indicitive of a larger problem.

Don't get me started on lazy techs. You read what happened with my lw300 and
the intermittent no start. Dealer had it almost a week and I told them
finally to replace the crank angle sensor. Fine ever since. Is it an option
to go to an independant mechanic and have them bill for warranty service?
Might be worth it in any event if you can find a good tech, to pay for it
and avoid the grief.

Oppie

Shifting feels fine and easy with the engine off and the clutch pressed
in. When the engine is on however, the shifter is most hard getting into
2nd gear and sometimes wont allow me if the RPM or engine speed isn't
"exactly" where it wants to be, even though the shift light on the dash
comes on telling me to shift. No clue if there is a magnetic drain plug.

This is a brand new car, so I wont be doing any work myself, however, the
techs at my dealership suck and wont address a problem unless they feel it
is obvious to them. (Case in point, my appliqués were rattling techs were
clueless, I posted here, got an answer, told the techs what to fix.) It
seems like protocol, I have to tell the techs what the problem is to get
them to fix it. Only dealership around for 100 mi. :-(

marx404

 

[marx404]

I spoke with the shop supervisor about the creak, now I have to wait for "my
tech" to look at it. I expect that he will most likely tell me that he
doesn't notice any problem or that he will have to spend extra time trouble
shooting it.
As I am an employee, I get looked at last, even if it is something serious.
Not all dealers and mechanics are alike, I just happened to step in the
smelly pile.

I am suspicious of the master cylinder as well as the clutch pedal itself.
Let ya know next week when they get around to looking at it. I have a
customer who is a Saturn loyalist, he told me about this local mechanic who
used to be a GM tech, I'm going to check him out, but I don't know if Orig.
Warranty is useable at anywhere else other than Saturn dealerships.

marx404

 

[Oppie]

Who knows, as they treat an employee as a second class citizen, it would be
worth having an independant at least diagnose it. Then give the findings to
your shop and give them the option of paying for the repair under warranty
or moving it back to their shop to do the repair. I suspect that they may
find it less expensive to have the other guy do it...
I have heard that transmission shops are often covered under most
manufacturer's warranties. Could be a similar arrangement.

 

[marx404]

The shop finally got to looking at it and found the master cylinder faulty,
replaced it. Feels like a new shifter again and no more creaky noises. Now I
just gotta learn to live awith a "synchronized" shifter. I hate having to
wait for the synchchronizer to catch up, I just like to quickly press the
clutch down, shift into gear quickly and go. Guess I have been spoiled by
driving sports cars that you can basically shift how you want to.

 

[Oppie]

That was the clutch master cylinder (master-slave)?
Don't know why the synchros should be a problem still. Should be no
different than any other manual shift you've ever driven. Try shifting on
one of the similar cars on your lot to see if it is any different. If yours
is still harder to shift, get the transmision oil changed and check for
metal powder or flakes in the oil. this would be evidence of damage to the
transmission.

I used to have a '69 VW beetle. I was out in the boonies when the clutch
throw-out bearing failed. I put the car in first gear and started it. Going
20 miles in first gear was a bit tedious so I got nervy and tried to shift
without the clutch. Found that if you just match the engine speed, could
shift though the gears just fine and without any grinding. I just kept a
gentle pressure on the shifter trying to pull in into gear (from neutral
while car was moving) and adjusted the throttle until the right speed was
achieved and then the shifter just dropped into gear.

 

[marx404]

The tech said that he bled the master cylinder and saw no metal flakes. Said
he had to bleed the system as he had to change the master cylinder. I do
notice that it is easier to shift now, much more like a new ION. Its been 2
days now, Ill drive a few more and see.....


--
marx404

That was the clutch master cylinder (master-slave)?
Don't know why the synchros should be a problem still. Should be no
different than any other manual shift you've ever driven. Try shifting on
one of the similar cars on your lot to see if it is any different. If
yours is still harder to shift, get the transmision oil changed and check
for metal powder or flakes in the oil. this would be evidence of damage to
the transmission.

I used to have a '69 VW beetle. I was out in the boonies when the clutch
throw-out bearing failed. I put the car in first gear and started it.
Going 20 miles in first gear was a bit tedious so I got nervy and tried to
shift without the clutch. Found that if you just match the engine speed,
could shift though the gears just fine and without any grinding. I just
kept a gentle pressure on the shifter trying to pull in into gear (from
neutral while car was moving) and adjusted the throttle until the right
speed was achieved and then the shifter just dropped into gear.

 

[Oppie]

Sounds like progress. This is a good thing.
When I wrote about checking for metal flakes, I meant in the transmission
oil, not the clutch master cylinder. <smile>
Sorry for the mis-understanding.

The tech said that he bled the master cylinder and saw no metal flakes.
Said he had to bleed the system as he had to change the master cylinder. I
do notice that it is easier to shift now, much more like a new ION. Its
been 2 days now, Ill drive a few more and see.....