LW-200 rear brakes / E-brake

[Steph]

Any pointers on where to find the adjustment for the e-brake on a LW-200?
I can't find any adjustment on the lever inside, so it must be under the
car right? It doesn't have self-adjusting rear drums does it?

Should be easy enough to tighten up by lifting the rear wheels and sliding
under if it is visible. I assume I would be looking for a y cable coming
from each brake drum to the center of the car with the single cable going
forward to the E-brake.

 

[Doug Miller]

Any pointers on where to find the adjustment for the e-brake on a LW-200?
I can't find any adjustment on the lever inside, so it must be under the
car right? It doesn't have self-adjusting rear drums does it?

Why would it *not* have self-adjusting rear drums? Self-adjusting drum brakes
have been around for more than forty years -- I'm guessing probably a lot
longer than that, but the oldest vehicle of which I have first-hand knowledge
is a 1967 Plymouth Fury.

 

[Oppie]

I'm having CRS (it is after all, my 57'th birthday today...)
I vaguely remember that the E-brake adjuster on my lw300 is through a 3/8"
diameter hole in the outside of the disk/drum assembly. The wheel has to
come off and there is access to a star wheel through the hole. Since this is
not a service brake, I guess they figured that it wouldn't need to be
adjusted much. Who Knows.
I have the service manual for my car. If you still need help, ask. I can
scan and send you a drawing. You may contact me at
Robert_oppenheimerathotmaildotcom

 

[Steph]

[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in

Why would it *not* have self-adjusting rear drums? Self-adjusting drum
brakes have been around for more than forty years -- I'm guessing
probably a lot longer than that, but the oldest vehicle of which I
have first-hand knowledge is a 1967 Plymouth Fury.

Why? I don't know. Heck, I just realized it wasn't 4 wheel disc about two
weeks ago while rotating the tires and explaining to my son (7) how to
break bolts loose and tightening star patterns.

I had a full size E-250 Ford van that had self-adjusting rear brakes.
But it also stated this in TFM. I did not seeany mention in the Saturn
Lw-200 manual of self-adjusting rear drum brakes.

I have tried a few sharp stops from about 3 MPH in reverse; didn't hear
any clicks or ratcheting - any the E-brake seems no tighter; the car
still slips a bit on my driveway.

....that is why I asked.

 

[Oppie]

I have tried a few sharp stops from about 3 MPH in reverse; didn't hear
any clicks or ratcheting - any the E-brake seems no tighter; the car
still slips a bit on my driveway.

...that is why I asked.

As long as it does not roll more than about a foot (worst case) on a hill,
it is normal for this design it seems. One of the rear wheel links (can't
remember if it was the upper or lower...) is a trailing arm that goes to a
VERY loose rubber bushing in the frame. I thought something was wrong when I
first applied the e-brake on a hill and the car drifted as soon as foot was
taken off the service brake. Was just the wind-up in the trailing arm
bushing.

btw- this bushing is so loose that if there is any brake dragging (I have 4
wheel disc with abs), it will throw off the rear wheel alignment and eat
your tire. One of my rear disc pads was rusted into the caliper and wasn't
moving right. got that fixed but needed a new tire before I could get a 4
wheel alignment.

Oppie

Just realized you said you do not have four wheel discs. four wheel disc
brakes with ABS have a separate drum brake for the e-brake.

 

[Doug Miller]

I had a full size E-250 Ford van that had self-adjusting rear brakes.
But it also stated this in TFM. I did not seeany mention in the Saturn
Lw-200 manual of self-adjusting rear drum brakes.

As long as self-adjusting brakes have been around, I'm surprised that *any*
manufacturer even bothers to mention it any more.

I have tried a few sharp stops from about 3 MPH in reverse; didn't hear
any clicks or ratcheting - any the E-brake seems no tighter; the car
still slips a bit on my driveway.

....that is why I asked.

Please understand that this can happen even if the brakes are perfectly
adjusted, and the e-brake cable *isn't* -- in fact, given your description,
that's probably exactly the case.

 

[Steph]

Just realized you said you do not have four wheel discs. four wheel
disc brakes with ABS have a separate drum brake for the e-brake.

Wait, so if I have traction control and ABS then I do have 4 wheel disc
brakes, but they have a secondary drum for the e-brake?

Now I am really confused.
Anyone know details on the clutch in this car? It is going to need
replacing soon. Ugh.

 

[Steph]

[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in

As long as self-adjusting brakes have been around, I'm surprised that
*any* manufacturer even bothers to mention it any more.

Please understand that this can happen even if the brakes are
perfectly adjusted, and the e-brake cable *isn't* -- in fact, given
your description, that's probably exactly the case.

....which takes us back to the first post.
Where is the preferred adjustment to the e-brake cable.
Inside the car? Underneath?

 

[Steph]

As long as it does not roll more than about a foot (worst case) on a
hill, it is normal for this design it seems. One of the rear wheel
links (can't remember if it was the upper or lower...) is a trailing
arm that goes to a VERY loose rubber bushing in the frame. I thought
something was wrong when I first applied the e-brake on a hill and the
car drifted as soon as foot was taken off the service brake. Was just
the wind-up in the trailing arm bushing.

I don't just pull up the e-brake, I yank on it.
A good 7-9 clicks. The car will continue to creak backwards down the
drive. Leaving it in gear provides enough additional resistance, but I am
sure the e-brake cable could be tightened a tiny bit without dragging and
still provide the holding power on the hill.

 

[Oppie]

I really meant to send you that information this past weekend. Too many
honeydew projects that took priority...
All of the 4-wheel disc ABS systems I've seen have a separate drum for the
e-brake. If you tell me that you have rear drums - and are sure of it, I'll
send you that information.

Generally, you never adjust the e-brake cable. You adjust the star wheel
only

 

[-Cronus-]

First off there are no 'emergency brakes' to be found on any Saturn. The
DOT does not require them on cars. (IOW no one should let their service
brakes reach a point that they can fail.)

The L series had either rear disk with with a drum parking brake or
simply drum brakes in the rear.

This is how you check adjustment, not make adjustments:
========================================
Park Brake Adjustment Check

On new vehicles (less than 50 miles) and on vehicles which have
just had the rear brake serviced, before performing Park Brake
Adjustment procedures, apply and release the brake pedal 20 times. This
allows the adjuster to position the brake linings and prevents premature
wear of the brake linings due to improper park brake adjustment.
1. Raise the vehicle on a hoist so the wheels spin freely. Refer to
Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information.
2. There should be no drag at the rear wheels with the park brake
lever in the rest position.
3. Pull the park brake lever to the third click. There should be
heavy brake drag to no rotation at both rear wheels when turned by hand.

Important

If both rear wheels do not exhibit similar drag in step 3, check
for damaged or incorrectly installed rear disc or drum brake assembly
installation of drum assembly components, park brake cables, and/or park
brake lever assembly. The park brake is adjusted correctly if it meets
the specifications explained in steps 2 and 3.
4. Adjust if necessary. Refer to Park Brake Adjustment .
5. Lower the vehicle from the hoist.
========================================

 

[Oppie]

First off there are no 'emergency brakes' to be found on any Saturn. The
DOT does not require them on cars. (IOW no one should let their service
brakes reach a point that they can fail.)

OK, not an 'emergency brake' but a redefinition of terms to 'parking brake'.

Some of us were around back in the day of single circuit braking systems
where a burst brake line **did** require and emergency brake. Now we have
dual circuit braking systems where, if one fails, there is still a redundant
one. Old habits are hard to change. Besides there was some drama and
excitement in saying *emergency brake* <smile>.