Idles but won't go

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by BronzeRider35, Jul 24, 2004.

  1. I have a 95 SL1, 120,00m. The problem has gotten worse. I bought the car very
    cheaply because it had an "unknown" problem. Which was this... The car would
    start and it would idle for as long as you let it idle. But as soon as you put
    your foot on the gas pedal it would die. I've replaced fuel filter and pump,
    and replaced the Bosch Platinums that the previous owner had in there. He had
    replaced the EGR valve as well.
    At this point it takes many attempts to get it started, but then it only runs
    for about 3 seconds then shuts off. Initially i was not getting service engine
    light, but now i am. However, when i use a jumper to get codes, all i get is
    the standard 12code.
    Suggestions please?

    Glen in Maine
     
    BronzeRider35, Jul 24, 2004
    #1
  2. IIRC, ODB-II started with the 95 model year. You can't read the code
    off an ODB-II system with a jumper like you could with the ODB-I. Many
    people have said that you can go to Autozone-like places and get the
    code read for free.

    -rj
    98SL2
     
    richard hornsby, Jul 24, 2004
    #2
  3. BronzeRider35

    BANDIT2941 Guest

    IIRC, ODB-II started with the 95 model year. You can't read the code
    ODB-II didn't start till 96, which is why he CAN and did read the codes with a
    paperclip.
     
    BANDIT2941, Jul 24, 2004
    #3
  4. BronzeRider35

    Blah Blah Guest

    Did you wait after code 12 was done to see if you got more? It should
    flash 3 times then goto the next code(s).

    http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/diag_info.html

    My random thoughts at this time, TPS, Vacuum leak, Fuel pump 2 second
    prime but never signaled to stay on, inspecting all previous work, Crank
    sensor, ignition module... To much left to look at, not enough
    discription given for the problem, this will take some time for sure.
    Did it ever build oil pressure? When it did run was it rough or smooth
    idling?
     
    Blah Blah, Jul 24, 2004
    #4
  5. ..>ODB-II didn't start till 96, which is why he CAN and did read the codes with
    thank-you Bandit. Yes, i can use a paper clip, and did. I finally got some
    codes. 22, 23, and 34. According to the haynes manual there is no 22,23, or 34
    problem. So i'm back to scratching my head, unless someone has a better list of
    codes/problems
     
    BronzeRider35, Jul 24, 2004
    #5
  6. My random thoughts at this time, TPS, Vacuum leak, Fuel pump 2 second
    When It does run, it runs smoothly. I can hear the pump do it's 2 second prime
    and if i continue cranking i can hear it running to supply more fuel. The pump
    is still a possibility but doesnt seem to be the problem at this point. Could
    it be the MAP sensor? I replaced the IAC valve, no luck there.
    At this point, when it does start, it will ramp up to 3k rpms and come back
    down to about 1k rpms. once it hits 1k it drops right off to 0. Also getting a
    lot of white smoky exhaust.

    Glen (going bald from scratching his head)
     
    BronzeRider35, Jul 24, 2004
    #6
  7. BronzeRider35

    uknewwho Guest

    here is what i have for your codes:
    22 - Throttle Position Sensor-Voltage low
    23 - IAT Cicuit low
    32 - MAP Sensor - Voltage out of range low

    hope that helps
    Good luck

    Jeremiah
     
    uknewwho, Jul 24, 2004
    #7
  8. BronzeRider35

    Blah Blah Guest

    I cant remember on a saturn but a lot of those codes are items, on some
    cars, that can be plugged into the wrong place since they're all usually
    grouped around the throttle body. Also those codes could of been set
    from someone forgetting to hook them back up after playing around and
    then cranking it. Since they are all low voltage that would be likely if
    they werent hooked up. Even unplugging them while the key is on might
    set the code.(clear the codes and see if they come back)

    The white smoke could be water that has been collecting in the exhaust
    or a sign of a blown head gasket. A pressure test of the cooling system
    would probably be a good idea. It will tell you if a head is cracked or
    a gasket is blown. Another idea to keep in mind is the timing chain may
    have jumped. Its very very rare but can happen. Fuel pressure regulator
    is another thing you might look at. There is a bunch of stuff to
    eliminate thats for sure.

    Keep us informed and good luck.
     
    Blah Blah, Jul 24, 2004
    #8
  9. This makes it more clear. Those 3 sensors all depend on a +5V power
    from the computer. Check them all with a voltmeter - I bet you have no
    +5V signal. The bad news - if there's none at the computer itself, then
    the computer's shot :(

    The good news - if there *is* +5V at the computer (And I bet there is),
    then it's just a wire broken in the harness.

    Using a Chiltons or such, you need to find which pins on the sensors
    connectors are the +5V supply and which are the return (on the TPS and
    MAP - IAT is 2 wire).

    I'd forget about IAT for now - the car can run without it. It needs MAP
    and TPS, though.

    BTW, as an experiment, I once unplugged:

    O2
    IAT
    MAP

    And found the car idled just dandy (in fact, a bit better, I thought).
    The check engine light came on, but it idled. Revving it wasn't very
    sucessful, though.
     
    Philip Nasadowski, Jul 25, 2004
    #9
  10. BronzeRider35

    Blah Blah Guest

    Thats a good observation. I didnt even think about the 5v sourse being
    shot. The cars probably trying to run by looking at what few sensors it
    has left and its trying to run off of its programing. Letting off the
    gas quickly just chokes it down so fast its not able compensate, same
    with trying to get above 3000 rpm. If he's slow on and off the gas it
    might stay running.
     
    Blah Blah, Jul 25, 2004
    #10
  11. BronzeRider35

    paul Guest

    PAUL's SUGGESTION: Follow the process to get "transmission codes" to
    read out, when you place the computer in diagnostic mode.

    The Haynes manual explains how to do it, and has a full list of codes.

    There is good chance, at 120,000, that you have some kind of tranny
    problem that is killing the engine.


    ==============================================================
     
    paul, Jul 25, 2004
    #11
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