Help! Need your opinion...

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Scott MacIntyre, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. Hi...

    I'm looking for help and opinions....My father (age 68) has a 2002 Vue,
    (6cyl, AWD). Upon returning from the hospital where my mom had just been
    diagnosed with cancer, he was pulling into the driveway when he got a low
    water light. Being in an upset state of mind, he said he opened the hood
    (it was at night) and added about two gallons of water/antifreeze to the cap
    in the front. Apparently, Saturn put the oil fill (with no words that say
    "Oil", just a picture of what he thought was a water can in the dark) near
    the radiator for easy access. Yup, he added the water to the oil. The good
    thing is that he realized what he did as soon as he did it, but couldn't get
    under the car to drain the oil, so he figured it wouldn't hurt to start it
    for a minute to put it up on the ramps. After draining the oil (and water)
    he added new oil and then got only a click-click when trying to restart.
    Got it towed to Saturn for free, but here's where he asked me what I
    thought, so I'm turning to you. Saturn says he needs a new engine, and
    here's the costs: A new engine from the plant installed: $10K. They
    shopped around for a used and found one from a rear end collision with
    25,000 miles on it and will do it for $4,500. (His vue had 33K). Now I
    have my own mechanic and asked him about the situation, and he said he can
    guarantee he doesn't need a new engine and said something about hydraulics,
    and that there was so much water sitting on top of the pistons that it had
    no where to go, which is why the engine clicked - the starter couldn't turn
    it over (or something to that effect. - I kind of lost him) So hears my
    question - what would you do? He's so depressed right now between what he
    calls an "asinine mistake", "that he should have known better" and my
    mother's medical issue that I want to be confident in what to tell him is
    the right thing to do...I know this is long, but I appreciate any help.

    Thanks,
    Scott MacIntyre
     
    Scott MacIntyre, Dec 16, 2004
    #1
  2. Scott MacIntyre

    jdoe Guest

    Take out the spark plugs and pull the fuel pump fuse. Also disconnect the
    coil pack (not sure if this engine has a coil pack though). Once the plugs
    are out drain the oil and refill with clean oil (use cheap stuff) and spin
    the engine over. Water should shoot out of cylinders. Drain oil again, put
    plugs back reconnect fuse and coil pack. Start and warm up GENTLY. It
    wouldn't be a bad idea to put some SeaFoam in the oil at this point prior to
    warm up. Once warmed. Change oil and filter again. Use good stuff this time.
    Add a little SeaFoam to this oil change also (maybe 2 oz.). Change again
    after about 500 miles and all should be well.
    Larry
     
    jdoe, Dec 16, 2004
    #2
  3. Scott MacIntyre

    Peter Young Guest

    Why would there be water on top of the cylinders, if the antifreeze was added to the crankcase? That makes no sense. If
    it's coming from the crankcase, then the rings or valve seals are gone.

    Running an engine with anti-freeze in the crankcase can destroy an engine. The problem is that the antifreeze prevents
    the oil from lubricating properly. Without proper lube of course the rings and bearings and any other metal-on-metal
    bearing surface gets destroyed by friction.

    Follow jdoe/Larry's advice (pull the fuel pump fuse and plugs, crank it until the cylinders are cleared out, etc.). If
    the antifreeze really did get into the crankcase and it was only running for a minute or so, he might be fine. I
    wouldn't worry about an engine swap until I knew for certain the engine was junk. Have your mechanic test the
    compression on each cylinder (this will tell you the state of the rings/seals). If it's good and you can get the engine
    fired up, make certain you run some sort of detergent through the oil to ensure you've gotten all of the water/glycol
    out of there (SeaFoam might be good enough - I don't know).

    If it fires up and the compression is good, then drive it till it stops. If you're lucky, then worst-case, he only
    knocked a few years/few thousand miles off of it.

    Best regards, and sorry to hear about your Mom.
     
    Peter Young, Dec 17, 2004
    #3
  4. Scott MacIntyre

    Blah blah Guest

    First off most of what I'm going to write is going to be more of a rant
    than an opinion. Also we all make mistakes in life. I've made a few
    costly mistakes and I'm bound to make more by the time I reach my 60's.

    Considering water is not a lubricant and with that much in the engine
    any revolution to the crank would scrape the bearing surfaces. Running
    it would of flat out destroyed them. This being a 2002 six cylinder and
    costing 10 grand to replace I have no doubt that this is the 3.5 HONDA
    engine? Just so you know Honda made the oil fill cap, not Saturn. This
    is one reason why I tell people not to buy foreign cars or engines.

    A brand new LS1 (corvette motor) list for $8500 but can be picked up
    anywhere for $5900. Think about that compaired to that "Honda"... A GM
    3800 series II crate motor (best 6cyl on the market) can be had for
    $2500. New 3800 crate motors that people never got around to using can
    be bought on ebay for well under a Grand. 3800's are as common as dirt
    but get into those Japanesse engines that are imported and get altered
    every other year and you'll pay out the ass to replace them...

    People think all this Jap $@#$ is invincible and none of it is. If its
    imported as a complete car it sounds like a deal, if its imported as a
    part it becomes two or four times as much when compaired to a domesitic!

    Sorry about the situation you and your families going through but that
    kind of money for an engine seems crazy to me. I bought a 3 year old
    pontiac bonneville with 73k on the OD for 5000 bucks. Why any used late
    model engine would be worth that is beyond me. I think he would be
    better off buying a used car and getting what he can out of the Vue. A
    new vehicle to me is like throwing away money, this is like throwing
    even more away...

    The only idea I have if you want to replace the engine is to find out
    how compatible the 3.5 engines in Honda's are. If they're close you
    could probably increase your potential of getting a better price on a
    used engine. Theres one on ebay now that goes to a 02-04 Odyssey (52k
    miles). Some parts like the intake or oil filter placement might be
    different but if everything that makes up the "Long block" is the same
    you can pull parts off the vue's engine and stick them on it to make it
    work I would think. Also shop around some more for price quotes.
     
    Blah blah, Dec 17, 2004
    #4
  5. Scott MacIntyre

    Blah blah Guest

    Thats what I was thinking...? I figured something got garbled in the
    passing of information which happens on here a lot. It couldnt be
    "hydrolocked", the bearings probably welded everything together.
     
    Blah blah, Dec 17, 2004
    #5
  6. Scott MacIntyre

    Peter Young Guest

    The Honda V6 didn't go in until 2004. The 2002 would be the Opel I believe.

    But yes, 10K does seem excessive.
     
    Peter Young, Dec 17, 2004
    #6
  7. Scott MacIntyre

    Blah blah Guest

    Thats right, I was thinking it changed in 02'. Same problem applies
    though, still imported. I think they might also be tacking a lot more
    labor cost on than they should. A break down in labor and parts cost
    would be insightful.
     
    Blah blah, Dec 17, 2004
    #7
  8. Scott MacIntyre

    Kirk Kohnen Guest

    Possibly it got sucked through the PCV route?
     
    Kirk Kohnen, Dec 18, 2004
    #8
  9. Thanks for all the suggestions - Before I could talk to him, he ok'ed the
    engine install from the wreck with 28K on it. I think the new engine for
    10K was way out of line, but if it's new from the factory, would that have
    made it a Honda? Anyway, the reason he ok'ed the used engine was that as he
    loading the dishwasher while pondering the decision and after turning it on,
    the dishwasher seized up/fried. My poor dad - what a week he having! He
    was afraid to go to his model railroad club worried he'd drop/wreck his $700
    train....Anyway, I think he'll have the engine put in and drive it for
    while, then trade it in. Good news is that my mom just got out of surgery
    and prognosis looks good! So hopefully, thinks are on the up for Pop!!

    Thanks again,
    Scott
     
    Scott MacIntyre, Dec 20, 2004
    #9
  10. Scott MacIntyre

    Napalm Heart Guest

    At least the most important thing has worked out good. Cars and
    dishwashers can be replaced, Mom can't.

    Best Wishes, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    Ken
     
    Napalm Heart, Dec 21, 2004
    #10
  11. Scott MacIntyre

    Blah blah Guest

    Well as Peter mentioned it would be a 3.0L Opel (german) motor. Which is
    also found in the L series but has a different intake but I think they
    could be adapted.

    The 3.0 would never have came from Honda. A certain amount of stuff is
    bought and stored away to be sold at a later time as replacements. Since
    the 3.0L isnt common nor made here that would be the reason why they
    cost so much as a crate motor. Those were really a pi** poor motor
    design anyhow. I think in a way your dad done the world a favor by
    destroying one of those.
     
    Blah blah, Dec 21, 2004
    #11
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