Flush Radiator - Opinions

What is the general consensus on flushing a radiator using your garden hose?

First, I know that you can't dump the coolant itself, but is it okay if
residual coolant is washed out on the ground while flushing (I'm in MN BTW,
if anyone knows)?

Second, my mother's bf, who is kind of a blow-hard know-it-all moron, but
sometimes knows what he is talking about, says there are too many minerals
in household water and they will plug tiny passages in the radiator and cook
solid once they get hot ruining it.

Is it a big job to flush and change all the hoses? I haven't had any
trouble, but when I brought it into Precision Tune for another problem, the
guy said all the hoses are OEM and should be replaced. He also suggested
replacing the Dex Cool with standard coolant.

'98 SL Sedan 5 speed Manual SOHC >115K

 

but is it okay if residual coolant is

I generally fill with tapwater, run the engine until the thermostat
opens, and drain to flush. Then that stuff gets taken in to the
recycling center with the drained coolant.

Different places will have different mineral content... but what does
he use, distilled water?

Nope. If you're flushing anyway, this is the time change the hoses....

Tim.

 

Use a watering can of jug to pour the water in. you don't want to
jam the hose into the radiator and risk damage by applying a full
water jet. Actually, you can just drain the old stuff and put the new
stuff in. You are replacing the coolant because the anti-corrsosion
additives loose efectiveness over time and the mix level may have
changed over time. The anti-freeze does not wear out, and there
should not be any corrosion on the system if the car has been
maintained.

No. Get a bucket and catch any of the stuff. The glycol used in the
coolant is poisonous and will taste sweet to any pet or animal or
small child that may get a hold of it. It is a painful death.

Only if yo plan to boil off the coolant or if you have very hard
water. Tap water is generally ok if its good for drinking and you
are not boiling off the stuff, if you are lazy, you can buy pre-mix
thats all ready at the recommended blend.

Remenber to open up the heater valve. If you don't you leave a bit
there. and switching out the heater hoses is a bitch, but a 98 should
have plenty of life left. I have a 90 GMC truck with the orignal
hoses and they still look fine. Do check the hose, the thermostat and
the radiator cap. If they look fine and work fine, you can probably
go another two years to the next change.

 

There will be corrosion even if the antifreeze is changed bi-annually. I
generally use the hose flush method and the stuff that comes out after the
radiator has been drained is always brown indicating corrosion.

I also always use a chemical flush as well. It takes a long time to drain
the radiator, flush with the garden hose, refill with distilled water, put
in the additive, run to temp and then 15 minutes longer, then do it all over
again filling the last time with distilled water, then again draining to
fill with the antifreeze.

I do this every two years and have not had any radiator or cooling system
problems in any of my 5 vehicles that IU maintain for my family.

Bob

 

Do NOT replace Dexcool with Silicon based coolants especially in a
Saturn. Your engine is aluminum, your heater core is aluminum, and your
radiator is aluminum. Conventional coolant will EAT ALUMINUM UP. I'm
sure he would like you to return for coolant changes every 2 years
and/or heater core replacements...

Hoses are up to you. If they are hard to get to then you should replace
them so you arent stuck on the side of the road unable to replace them.
Usually only the lower hose is hard to get to and thats what I usually
replace in those cases.

I have well water here but what I do is run the water through those
carbon filtered drinking water containers. I wash out used washer fluid
bottles, mark the half way point between the bottom and before the taper
at the top of the bottle. I then fill half with water then half with dex
and I get my very own premix.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is GM's procedures for coolant replacement and flushing for a 98 S-
series.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Engine Coolant Check and Replacement


Object Number: 872298 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. Check the engine coolant level in the coolant surge tank.
The coolant level should be between the FULL COLD Min. and FULL
COLD Max. line depending on the engine temperature. If low, check for
leaks and add coolant up to the FULL COLD range.

Notice

The engine's cooling system thermostat and water pump will not
function correctly if oil is found in the cooling system. The cooling
system must be flushed and the water pump and the thermostat's cartridge
replaced.
2. Check the engine coolant quality.
There should not be any rust deposits or scales in the coolant
surge tank or cap and the coolant should be free from oil. If
excessively dirty, flush the system and replace the cap as necessary.
Object Number: 872047 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Caution

Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool,
then slowly remove the cap.
3. Replace the engine coolant:
1. Remove the coolant surge tank cap.

Important

A two gallon container will be required to hold the coolant.
2. Drain the coolant from the radiator and engine drain plug
located at the right front of the engine block.
3. Close the radiator drain plug and install the cylinder block
drain plug.
Tighten

Tighten the cylinder block coolant drain plug to 35 N·m (26
lb ft).

Important

The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant.
4. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with a 50/50 solution
of Dex-Cool=3F antifreeze and clean water.
5. Capacity (with heater): 6.75 L (7 qt). Start the engine and
check for leaks.
6. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then
add additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD
range.
7. Install the cap.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coolant System Flushing

When the engine's cooling system becomes contaminated, it should be
flushed thoroughly to remove the contaminants before the engine is
seriously damaged. One source of contamination that is damaging to the
engine if not corrected immediately is a cracked oil gallery. With a
cracked oil gallery, oil will be forced into the cooling system while
the engine is operating, and when it is stopped, coolant will leak into
the lubricating system. If mixed with oil in the crankcase, this
antifreeze forms a varnish which quickly immobilizes moving engine
parts.

To remove such contaminants from the engine, both the cooling system and
the lubrication system must be thoroughly flushed after the engine is
repaired.

Caution

Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool, then
slowly remove the cap.

If the engine has had a failure resulting in the contamination of the
cooling system with lubricating oil, or a substance other than a
recommended antifreeze has been added, the following procedure is
recommended.


Object Number: 872047 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. The cooling system holds approximately two gallons of coolant.
2. Prepare a mixture of Calgon® automatic dishwasher detergent or
equivalent, and water at the ratio of two ounces (dry measure) to 3.8
liters (1 gal) of water. The vehicle has two drains: one located in the
lower right hand side of the radiator and the other one located directly
under the thermostat housing.
Remove the coolant surge tank cap and drain the cooling system.
Object Number: 871724 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Remove the engine thermostat to permit the Calgon® or equivalent
and water mixture to circulate through the engine and the radiator.

Object Number: 872300 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
4. Fill the cooling system with the Calgon® or equivalent solution.
5. Run the engine for 5 minutes.
6. Drain the cooling system.
7. Repeat Steps 4-6.
8. Fill the cooling system with clean water.
9. Let the engine run 5 minutes.

Notice

If the cooling system has been contaminated by oil, replacement of
the thermostat and water pump is required.
10. Drain the cooling system completely.
11. Install the new engine thermostat. Refer to Thermostat Replacement
..
12. Install the new water pump. Refer to Water Pump Replacement .
13. Install the cylinder block drain plug.
Tighten

Tighten the cylinder block drain plugs to 35 N·m (26 lb ft).
14. Close the radiator drain plug.

Object Number: 872298 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Important

The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant.
15. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with coolant. Use a 50/50
solution of DEX-COOL=3F antifreeze and clean water.
16. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then add
additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD
range.
17. Install the coolant surge tank cap and check for leaks.

 

That's great information thanks.
Not thinking I topped off my 2.2 LW with some green antifreeze. About a cup.
My brother said I should have it flushed. I'm guessing that the procedures
for the 2.2 and the 1.9 are similar?
Maybe I'll try it myself?
Thanks again
Sanppa

Do NOT replace Dexcool with Silicon based coolants especially in a
Saturn. Your engine is aluminum, your heater core is aluminum, and your
radiator is aluminum. Conventional coolant will EAT ALUMINUM UP. I'm
sure he would like you to return for coolant changes every 2 years
and/or heater core replacements...

Hoses are up to you. If they are hard to get to then you should replace
them so you arent stuck on the side of the road unable to replace them.
Usually only the lower hose is hard to get to and thats what I usually
replace in those cases.

I have well water here but what I do is run the water through those
carbon filtered drinking water containers. I wash out used washer fluid
bottles, mark the half way point between the bottom and before the taper
at the top of the bottle. I then fill half with water then half with dex
and I get my very own premix.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is GM's procedures for coolant replacement and flushing for a 98 S-
series.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Engine Coolant Check and Replacement


Object Number: 872298 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. Check the engine coolant level in the coolant surge tank.
The coolant level should be between the FULL COLD Min. and FULL
COLD Max. line depending on the engine temperature. If low, check for
leaks and add coolant up to the FULL COLD range.

Notice

The engine's cooling system thermostat and water pump will not
function correctly if oil is found in the cooling system. The cooling
system must be flushed and the water pump and the thermostat's cartridge
replaced.
2. Check the engine coolant quality.
There should not be any rust deposits or scales in the coolant
surge tank or cap and the coolant should be free from oil. If
excessively dirty, flush the system and replace the cap as necessary.
Object Number: 872047 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Caution

Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool,
then slowly remove the cap.
3. Replace the engine coolant:
1. Remove the coolant surge tank cap.

Important

A two gallon container will be required to hold the coolant.
2. Drain the coolant from the radiator and engine drain plug
located at the right front of the engine block.
3. Close the radiator drain plug and install the cylinder block
drain plug.
Tighten

Tighten the cylinder block coolant drain plug to 35 N·m (26
lb ft).

Important

The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant.
4. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with a 50/50 solution
of Dex-Cool=3F antifreeze and clean water.
5. Capacity (with heater): 6.75 L (7 qt). Start the engine and
check for leaks.
6. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then
add additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD
range.
7. Install the cap.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coolant System Flushing

When the engine's cooling system becomes contaminated, it should be
flushed thoroughly to remove the contaminants before the engine is
seriously damaged. One source of contamination that is damaging to the
engine if not corrected immediately is a cracked oil gallery. With a
cracked oil gallery, oil will be forced into the cooling system while
the engine is operating, and when it is stopped, coolant will leak into
the lubricating system. If mixed with oil in the crankcase, this
antifreeze forms a varnish which quickly immobilizes moving engine
parts.

To remove such contaminants from the engine, both the cooling system and
the lubrication system must be thoroughly flushed after the engine is
repaired.

Caution

Do not remove the cap from a hot system. Allow the system to cool, then
slowly remove the cap.

If the engine has had a failure resulting in the contamination of the
cooling system with lubricating oil, or a substance other than a
recommended antifreeze has been added, the following procedure is
recommended.


Object Number: 872047 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
1. The cooling system holds approximately two gallons of coolant.
2. Prepare a mixture of Calgon® automatic dishwasher detergent or
equivalent, and water at the ratio of two ounces (dry measure) to 3.8
liters (1 gal) of water. The vehicle has two drains: one located in the
lower right hand side of the radiator and the other one located directly
under the thermostat housing.
Remove the coolant surge tank cap and drain the cooling system.
Object Number: 871724 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Remove the engine thermostat to permit the Calgon® or equivalent
and water mixture to circulate through the engine and the radiator.

Object Number: 872300 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
4. Fill the cooling system with the Calgon® or equivalent solution.
5. Run the engine for 5 minutes.
6. Drain the cooling system.
7. Repeat Steps 4-6.
8. Fill the cooling system with clean water.
9. Let the engine run 5 minutes.

Notice

If the cooling system has been contaminated by oil, replacement of
the thermostat and water pump is required.
10. Drain the cooling system completely.
11. Install the new engine thermostat. Refer to Thermostat Replacement
..
12. Install the new water pump. Refer to Water Pump Replacement .
13. Install the cylinder block drain plug.
Tighten

Tighten the cylinder block drain plugs to 35 N·m (26 lb ft).
14. Close the radiator drain plug.

Object Number: 872298 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Important

The vehicle must be level when filling with coolant.
15. Fill the system to the FULL COLD range with coolant. Use a 50/50
solution of DEX-COOL=3F antifreeze and clean water.
16. Run the engine until the upper radiator hose is hot, then add
additional coolant, if needed, to bring the level to the FULL COLD
range.
17. Install the coolant surge tank cap and check for leaks.

 

The Ecotec is a different breed of engine. I havent had to do any
cooling system work on one thus far but from looking at my eSI disk it
looks more difficult to access the thermostate and water pump if one
needed to. Probably this engines one slight draw back in design...

Anytime you mix non-extended life coolant with dexcool you cut the life
of the coolant down to 2 years or less. The corrosion inhibitors of each
coolant attack eachother.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
L-300 w/Ecotec

Draining and Filling Cooling System
Coolant Level

The engine coolant level can be inspected at the engine coolant surge
tank. The coolant level should be inspected when the system is cool and
not under pressure. The coolant level should be at the cold line, also
called the surge tank seam, on the coolant tank. If the coolant level is
low, inspect the system for leaks, and then slowly open the coolant
surge tank cap. Add the coolant until the level reaches the cold line.
Coolant Quality

Inspect the quality of coolant. There should not be any rust deposits,
scale, or oil in the surge tank or on the coolant cap. If the coolant is
excessively dirty, the cooling system should be flushed and the cap
replaced.
Draining Procedure


Object Number: 894527 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Caution

To avoid the danger of being burned, do not remove the cap while
the engine, radiator, and surge tank are still hot. Scalding fluid and
steam can be blown out under pressure.
1. Remove the surge tank cap.
2. Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in
General Information.

Object Number: 894225 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Remove the lower cradle splash shield fasteners.
4. Remove the lower cradle splash shield (2).

Object Number: 894529 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Important

Failure to use a drain hose will result in uncontrolled coolant
flow direction.
5. Slide a pliable piece of hose with an inside diameter of 3/8 in
over the radiator drain tube.
6. Route the hose rearward and down to a 7.6 L (8 qt) coolant
container.
7. Use a flat bladed tool or a pliers to open the radiator drain
valve 1-2 turns only.
8. Approximately 3.5 L (4 qt) of coolant can be drained from the
radiator. Additional coolant will remain in some cooling system
components. Inspect the coolant.
9. Follow the appropriate procedure based on the condition of the
coolant.
* Normal in appearance -- follow the filling procedure below.
* Discolored -- follow the flush procedure. Refer to Coolant
System Flushing .

Filling Procedure
Tools Required

J 26568 Coolant and Battery Tester

Notice

The procedure below must be followed. Improper coolant level could
result in a low or high coolant level condition, causing engine damage.
1. Close the coolant drain valve and remove the drain hose.

Object Number: 894225 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
2. Install the lower cradle splash shield (2).
Notice

Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.
3. Install the fasteners to the lower cradle splash shield.
Tighten

Tighten the fasteners to 5 N·m (44 lb in).
4. Slowly fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of GM
Goodwrench DEX-COOL® or HAVOLINE® DEX-COOL® and clean, drinkable water.
Refer to Capacities - Approximate Fluid in General Information.
5. The coolant level should be at the cold line on the coolant tank.
Install the surge tank cap.
6. Start the engine.
7. Run the engine at 2,000-2,500 RPM until the engine reaches normal
operating temperature.
8. Allow the engine to idle for 3 minutes.
9. Shut the engine off.
10. Allow the engine to cool.
11. Top off the coolant as necessary.
12. Using J 26568 , inspect the concentration of the engine coolant.
13. Rinse away any excess coolant from the engine and the engine
compartment.

------------------------------------------------------------------
L-300 w/Ecotec

Coolant System Flushing

Important

Do not use a chemical flush.

Store used coolant in the proper manner, such as in a used engine
coolant holding tank. Do not pour used coolant down a drain. Ethylene
glycol antifreeze is a very toxic chemical. Do not dispose of coolant
into the sewer system or ground water. This is illegal and ecologically
unsound.

Various methods and equipment can be used to flush the cooling system.
If special equipment is used, such as a back flusher, follow the
manufacturer's instruction. However, always remove the thermostat before
back flushing the system.

1. Block the drive wheels.
2. Place the transmission in PARK (P) or NEUTRAL (N).
3. Engage the park brake.
4. Run the engine until the thermostat opens.
5. Stop the engine.
6. Follow the drain and fill procedure using only clean drinkable
water. Repeat the procedure if necessary, until the fluid is nearly
colorless. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling System .
7. Fill the coolant reservoir to the FULL COLD mark.
8. Fill the cooling system. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling
System .

 

blah balh,
Thanks again for your response.
I'm glad you mentioned not to use a chemical flush. I'm looking at a bottle
of Prestone Flush I picked up with the DEX Antifreeze.
Do you think I should use the Calgon dishwasher flush you mention earlier in
the thread?
If you find the position of a drain plug on the 4 cylinder 2.2 block,
please let me know.
Once again. I appreciate your suggestions.
Snappa


--

The Ecotec is a different breed of engine. I havent had to do any
cooling system work on one thus far but from looking at my eSI disk it
looks more difficult to access the thermostate and water pump if one
needed to. Probably this engines one slight draw back in design...

Anytime you mix non-extended life coolant with dexcool you cut the life
of the coolant down to 2 years or less. The corrosion inhibitors of each
coolant attack eachother.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
L-300 w/Ecotec

Draining and Filling Cooling System
Coolant Level

The engine coolant level can be inspected at the engine coolant surge
tank. The coolant level should be inspected when the system is cool and
not under pressure. The coolant level should be at the cold line, also
called the surge tank seam, on the coolant tank. If the coolant level is
low, inspect the system for leaks, and then slowly open the coolant
surge tank cap. Add the coolant until the level reaches the cold line.
Coolant Quality

Inspect the quality of coolant. There should not be any rust deposits,
scale, or oil in the surge tank or on the coolant cap. If the coolant is
excessively dirty, the cooling system should be flushed and the cap
replaced.
Draining Procedure


Object Number: 894527 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Caution

To avoid the danger of being burned, do not remove the cap while
the engine, radiator, and surge tank are still hot. Scalding fluid and
steam can be blown out under pressure.
1. Remove the surge tank cap.
2. Raise the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in
General Information.

Object Number: 894225 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Remove the lower cradle splash shield fasteners.
4. Remove the lower cradle splash shield (2).

Object Number: 894529 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.

Important

Failure to use a drain hose will result in uncontrolled coolant
flow direction.
5. Slide a pliable piece of hose with an inside diameter of 3/8 in
over the radiator drain tube.
6. Route the hose rearward and down to a 7.6 L (8 qt) coolant
container.
7. Use a flat bladed tool or a pliers to open the radiator drain
valve 1-2 turns only.
8. Approximately 3.5 L (4 qt) of coolant can be drained from the
radiator. Additional coolant will remain in some cooling system
components. Inspect the coolant.
9. Follow the appropriate procedure based on the condition of the
coolant.
* Normal in appearance -- follow the filling procedure below.
* Discolored -- follow the flush procedure. Refer to Coolant
System Flushing .

Filling Procedure
Tools Required

J 26568 Coolant and Battery Tester

Notice

The procedure below must be followed. Improper coolant level could
result in a low or high coolant level condition, causing engine damage.
1. Close the coolant drain valve and remove the drain hose.

Object Number: 894225 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
2. Install the lower cradle splash shield (2).
Notice

Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.
3. Install the fasteners to the lower cradle splash shield.
Tighten

Tighten the fasteners to 5 N·m (44 lb in).
4. Slowly fill the cooling system with a 50/50 mixture of GM
Goodwrench DEX-COOL® or HAVOLINE® DEX-COOL® and clean, drinkable water.
Refer to Capacities - Approximate Fluid in General Information.
5. The coolant level should be at the cold line on the coolant tank.
Install the surge tank cap.
6. Start the engine.
7. Run the engine at 2,000-2,500 RPM until the engine reaches normal
operating temperature.
8. Allow the engine to idle for 3 minutes.
9. Shut the engine off.
10. Allow the engine to cool.
11. Top off the coolant as necessary.
12. Using J 26568 , inspect the concentration of the engine coolant.
13. Rinse away any excess coolant from the engine and the engine
compartment.

------------------------------------------------------------------
L-300 w/Ecotec

Coolant System Flushing

Important

Do not use a chemical flush.

Store used coolant in the proper manner, such as in a used engine
coolant holding tank. Do not pour used coolant down a drain. Ethylene
glycol antifreeze is a very toxic chemical. Do not dispose of coolant
into the sewer system or ground water. This is illegal and ecologically
unsound.

Various methods and equipment can be used to flush the cooling system.
If special equipment is used, such as a back flusher, follow the
manufacturer's instruction. However, always remove the thermostat before
back flushing the system.

1. Block the drive wheels.
2. Place the transmission in PARK (P) or NEUTRAL (N).
3. Engage the park brake.
4. Run the engine until the thermostat opens.
5. Stop the engine.
6. Follow the drain and fill procedure using only clean drinkable
water. Repeat the procedure if necessary, until the fluid is nearly
colorless. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling System .
7. Fill the coolant reservoir to the FULL COLD mark.
8. Fill the cooling system. Refer to Draining and Filling Cooling
System .