dielectric grease- why isn't it ALWAYS used in elec repairs?

[misterfact]

I've never had an electric splice corrode and fail when I've covered it with dielectric grease.

Why don't ALL electricians use it all the time? Is it that some of them WANT the connection to fail so you'll go back for another repair?

I put it on spark plug-wire connection; twisted electric wire connections before covering with a wire nut; etc.

The same goes for regular grease or anti-seize on auto lugnuts, brake caliper bleed valves, etc. Do SOME mechanics fail to use it so you can't remove the tire, bleed valve, etc- YOUSELF and are forced to go back to a mechanic to do the job over?

?????

 

[Steve Mackie]

Might just be laziness, might be shop cost control. I know I use all mentioned products when I work on a vehicle, and I know every mechanic I've ever gone to never did.

Industrial Mechanics and other commercial professionals use anti-sieze and dielectric grease everywhere. Maybe it's the "throw it away when it's worn out" mentality of the auto industry.

Steve

 

[James1549]

It comes down to material costs and labor costs.

James

 

[Philip Nasadowski]

I put it on spark plug-wire connection; twisted electric wire connections before covering with a wire nut; etc.

Is the latter even allowed under NFPA 70?

 

[RK Henry]

I've never had an electric splice corrode and fail when I've covered it with dielectric grease.

Why don't ALL electricians use it all the time? Is it that some of them WANT the connection to fail so you'll go back for another repair?

I put it on spark plug-wire connection; twisted electric wire connections before covering with a wire nut; etc.

The same goes for regular grease or anti-seize on auto lugnuts, brake caliper bleed valves, etc. Do SOME mechanics fail to use it so you can't remove the tire, bleed valve, etc- YOUSELF and are forced to go back to a mechanic to do the job over?

Years ago, no one used grease, not even the manufacturers. Dielectric grease didn't exist and regular grease would just make a big mess, degrading rubber parts. How many current mechanics started their careers at that time? How many of them learned their craft by watching the old guys. You still hear it, "Sonny, I've been doing it this way since before you were BORN!"

There are mechanics who keep up with new technology--a few. There are so many more who do not. I've read articles lamenting those repair shops that are no longer able to service new cars because they don't have scanners. My sister spent a wad of money on needless repairs because the shop didn't bother, or know how, to get the data from the computer. The car told me that it was a bad TPS. That could have been tried first. I've known a lot of people who have run up huge repair bills because the shop starts with replacing the PCM computer first and successively replaces every component in descending cost order until they either fix it or you run out of money.

Anti-sieze on lugnuts is is specifically prohibited by some manufacturers. On these cars, the published lug torque is predicated on dirty, sticky lugs. Putting anti-sieze on these fasteners may allow your torque wrench to apply too much torque. I've seen the results of that, you can break lugs or the lugs can chew into the wheel. Some manufacturers specify anti-sieze on spark plugs, others prohibit it. You gotta read the manual. However, most mechanics I've encountered seem to have an aversion to reading. I gusss stopping to look stuff up cuts into work time. One, commenting on my copy of the service manual, told me, "The best thing you can do with that is to throw it away!"

RK Henry

 

[Freddo]

I've never had an electric splice corrode and fail when I've covered it with dielectric grease.

I solder the connections and cover with heat-shrink tubing. Never had a problem and don't need grease.

An alternative is crimp connectors, another gas-tight method.

 

[Private]

On 3 Nov 2005 14:26:11 -0800, wrote: snip
Anti-sieze on lugnuts is is specifically prohibited by some manufacturers. On these cars, the published lug torque is predicated on dirty, sticky lugs. Putting anti-sieze on these fasteners may allow your torque wrench to apply too much torque. I've seen the results of that, you can break lugs or the lugs can chew into the wheel.

I would be interested to know which mfgs PROHIBIT the use of anti seize tread lubricant on wheel lug bolts.

I agree that anti seize should not be used on the tapered cone of the wheel or the nut (or on the flat surface under some aluminum wheel nuts) which is difficult to avoid unless the anti seize is applied sparingly and brushed evenly BEFORE the wheel is placed on the studs.

Some torque specifications refer to cleaned and oiled threads but I have NEVER heard of a mfgr basing specs on dirty or corroded threads which would be inconsistent over a wide range of conditions. Some mfgs require a reduction of 10% if thread lubricant is used instead of oil and an increase of 10% if threads are CLEAN and dry. The same clamping force can be achieved using tread lubricant (instead of oil) and lower torque. It is important not to overtorque when using tread lubicant as bolt stretch can result.

IMHO if the treads are not cleaned and at least oiled then the clamping force will be VERY inconsistant and there will be a STRONG likelyhood that the wheel will loosen and destroy the wheel tapered cones under the nuts. Ungreased nuts are also VERY likely to seize on the studs if operated in any area where salt is used on roads or where there is a lot of moisture. This will often cause studs to seize or break when removal is attempted, this will always happen when you need to change a tire at night in a storm.

Always check the mounting torque after driving 50 miles or so after mounting any wheel for any reason including a flat repair. This is particularly important if the wheels have been repainted.

I wish that mfgrs would use antiseize thread lube on ALL fasteners (except some engine internals).

Some

manufacturers specify anti-sieze on spark plugs, others prohibit it.

Most (if not all) mfgrs require the use of some type of antiseize compound on aluminum heads. This is to prevent the aluminum threads from seizing to the iron plugs and tearing out when the plugs are removed causing a very expensive repair. IMHO other than overtorquing causing tread damage I cannot imagine a situation where high temp never seize would cause a problem but YMMV.

You gotta read the manual.

No disagreement here.

However, most mechanics I've encountered

seem to have an aversion to reading. I gusss stopping to look stuff up cuts into work time. One, commenting on my copy of the service manual, told me, "The best thing you can do with that is to throw it away!"

While we would like to think that the manual is always correct, unfortunately, IMHO this is not always the case and too often the manual (especially aftermarket manuals) is just plain wrong. Often errors can be due to translation. It all depends on the quality control of the manual. Manuals printed in the first year of a new model are particularly suspect.

Just my .02, YMMV

 

[RK Henry]

I would be interested to know which mfgs PROHIBIT the use of anti seize tread lubricant on wheel lug bolts.

That would be Cadillac, for one. They say that you should not put lubricant on lugs or nuts. The reason they give is that the specified torque would then result in too much stress on the part.

I notice that Saturn just says to clean rust and dirt from the lugs, not saying anything about lubrication. I interpret that to mean no lubrication, since lubrication isn't mentioned, but that if you use it you probably won't break anything. I suppose that might be because the Saturn lugs are smaller and the torque specs lower so lubrication doesn't make that much difference.

RK Henry