Any Thoughts on the new Outlook?

Discussion in 'Saturn Outlook' started by Joe, May 1, 2008.

  1. Joe

    Joe Guest

    Joe, May 1, 2008
  2. Joe

    Steph Guest

    Joe, I have been itching over the Outlook for awhile too.
    I drove one about two weeks back - big , heavy, roomy, good power.
    It does shift kinda hard and early when accelerating.

    The 7/8 passenger seating is nice.
    The 4500 tow rating is nice.
    The 235 hp is nice.

    The EPA estimates... not nice.
    Also not nice, once you deck it out you are talking $40k !

    I am collecting info on lots of other 7/8 passenger vehicles with tow
    ratings above 4000 lbs - but EPA estimates of 20 city and 25 hwy or
    better. I'd love to go hybrid, but it isn't there yet - they are doing
    the BIG SUV's first, then maybe the Crossovers.
    Steph, May 1, 2008
  3. Joe

    marx404 Guest

    All I know is that the first generations (2007) had a shifting paradigm
    issue which was resolved by a software update. 2008 Outlooks have this
    already fixed. 24mpg hwy in a SUV with 275hp isn't too bad. The shifting on
    the new V6's is something new for people used to dino-guzzling V8's, instead
    of being tossed back into the seat, the V6 is very smooth.

    check out and MSN Autos as well to compare and read all about
    marx404, May 1, 2008
  4. Joe

    PerfectReign Guest

    I looked at them and stayed the <insert explicitive here> away.

    1. They're the same size as a Tahoe (roughly) yet don't have the power.
    202"x79"x76", 5200 lbs for the Tahoe and 200"x78"x69", 4500 lbs for the
    Outlook. 295hp/305 ft-lbs for the Tahoe and 275hp/251 ft-lbs for the

    2. They don't get much better mileage - 14/19 for the tahoe and 16/24 for
    the outlook.

    3. They cost about the same.

    4. They are front-wheel drive and have no locking differential.

    Your money is better spent with a Tahoe/Yukon.
    PerfectReign, May 2, 2008
  5. Joe

    SMS Guest

    Hmm, the highway mileage is 21% better on the Outlook. That's a fairly
    significant difference.
    If the Saturn dealer is actually sticking to MSRP, which I doubt, then
    the Tahoe will have a lower street price.
    No one is taking the Outlook off-road, so I question the need for a
    locking or LS differential. It's like taking a Honda CR-V off road. The
    AWD is good for one thing, and that's satisfying the legal requirement
    to not put on chains when the CHP requires chains for non-AWD vehicles.
    Yes, if you need a true SUV, rather than an MTV (Mall Terrain Vehicle).
    SMS, May 2, 2008
  6. Joe

    PerfectReign Guest

    Not really.

    Let's take the current price of gas, $3.75/gallon near me. (I paid this the
    other day to fill up the Vue.)

    I drive 18,000 miles/year.

    At 14 miles per gallon, I'd pay $4,821 in gas.

    At 16 miles per gallon, I'd pay $4,218 in gas. A measly $600 difference, or
    $50 per month.

    At 19 miles per gallong, I'd pay $3552 in gas in a year.

    At 24 miles per gallon, I'd pay $2812 in gas in a year.

    Not that much difference for a real truck.

    Oh, and on my avalanche, I have the 5.3L engine. In combined city/highway, I
    get 17MPG. I don't know where the 14MPG comes into play on the Tahoe, with
    a smaller engine. In a recent trip to death valley (from los angeles)
    towing a tent trailer, I got 21MPG over 900 miles.

    Hey, I used to take my Kia Sedona off road...

    I've taken the Avalanche in far more remote places.

    Valid point.

    MTV - I like it!!
    PerfectReign, May 2, 2008
  7. Since this is the third Saturn I and my youngest daughter have
    purchased, I was curious when some posters here said the dealerships
    were discounting the sticker. Dealerships here have always stuck to that
    even when I asked why I should buy from X dealership instead of Y if the
    price is the same and since my daughter was moving the Atlanta after the
    purchase. This is true but it takes service out as their claimed
    differentiator. In any case, could never get anyone to budge on sticker.

    But where I found them to "negotiate" was on the trade-in. Now before
    going to the dealer, we checked Edmunds for the value of the trade-in.
    Edmunds. It was a 2002 SL1 with 72,000 miles, both side mirrors broke,
    the center console arm rest damaged, a burn hole in the passenger seat
    from a previous dumb-ass boyfriend, and a slight dent in the hood caused
    by something from the road. Edmunds says about $2,800 which is what one
    dealer offered. The other dealer offered $3,800 which I knew was way
    over what it was worth.

    When pressing the first dealer, they came up to $3,000 but held there.
    So we went to the dealer offering the $3,800 and did the deal. Really
    what we were getting was $1,000 off sticker.

    The interesting thing, and we did not know this until after purchasing
    the Vue, was that these two Saturn dealerships were actually owned by
    the same person. How we found that out was the better trade-in price
    dealer did not have the vehicle we wanted so he had to find something
    close to what we wanted. He called his sister dealership and they would
    not give up the Vue since "they were working a deal with another
    customer" - probably us and they probably knew we had now gone to the
    other dealership. So he got a Vue from another area dealer. He told us
    the other dealership (that we had been to) and theirs was owned by the
    same person.

    So my suggestion is to go around to every Saturn dealership in the area
    (we went to all but one) and try to negotiate your deal. For a $100 or
    $200 buck difference, I would tend to go with the closest dealer. But
    for $800 to $1000, I will go to a distant dealer. As it turned out, the
    closest dealer had the best price, but since the daughter is moving, no
    big deal either way.

    When we were writing up the deal at the other dealer (the higher priced
    place that we walked out of) I did try dickering on the documentation
    (more profit) fee. That's when they pulled out a brochure showing all
    this stuff (federal and state regulations) that they supposedly have to
    file forms for. I told her it was completely bogus and said the State of
    Ohio allows that as the maximum charge on a "retail installment
    contract." The give a great description of this on the state consumer

    I do have a question that I am going to also ask the State of Ohio. If
    you are arranging your own financing, so in sense you are paying the
    dealer cash, then can they even charge this fee? The state seems to
    indicate that this can be charged as part of the cost for them to
    arrange financing. But if they are not, thus the contract is not an
    installment contract, is this fee really legal?

    So in a nutshell, by doing our homework and spending a bit of time, my
    daughter saved herself a boatload of money compared to the other
    dealers. She had a lot of fun and said she learned a lot about the process.

    Thanks again to all who gave opinions on the Vue. So far, the 2.4L 4
    banger seems to be doing really well and after putting 75 miles on the
    Vue, the gas gauge is still on full. I hope that is a good indication
    that she will getting fairly good gas mileage.
    Hang_Traitor_Democrats, May 2, 2008
  8. It's not a government fee, it's a junk fee. How much was it? Where I
    live the doc fee is $35-50 and is easily take off if you press the
    issue, though it's easier just to factor it into your offer by
    subtracting it out.

    Watch out for dealers that add junk fees like "closing fees" of $199
    (a relative ran into this in South Carolina, and wen to another dealer
    that didn't have this nonsense). Why don't they just call it
    "additional dealer markup" since that's what its (because Saturn won't
    let them because of the myth of MSRP). They even mention this fee on
    their web site (""):

    "This dealership charges a closing fee of $199.00, which is allowed by
    SC Code Section 37-2-307. It is a charge that is permitted by law but
    not required by law. The full cash price charged at any dealership
    depends on many factors, including all products and services bought
    wit <sic> the vehicle."

    Geez, they can't even get their spelling on their web site right!
    Ironically though, a colleague at work bought a Saturn at that dealer
    and got a much better deal than at the one in a neighboring city,
    because the dealer negotiated a price low enough to far offset the
    junk fee (as in your case the dealer grossly inflated the value of the
    trade-in to save the deal). My colleague paid $1000 less than the
    Saturn dealer in the next city over wanted for the identical vehicle,
    even including the junk fee. But many people actually believe the "no
    haggling" story that the dealers tell them, and don't even try to
    negotiate the price, let alone the junk fees.
    RepublicansDestroyAmerica, May 2, 2008
  9. Joe

    SMS Guest

    I looked at that section of the South Carolina code. It's not closing
    costs for a loan that it refers to,

    "SECTION 37-2-307. Notice of closing fees on motor vehicle sales
    contract; registration fees.

    Every motor vehicle dealer charging closing fees on a motor vehicle
    sales contract shall pay a one-time registration fee of ten dollars
    during each state fiscal year to the Department of Consumer Affairs. The
    closing fee must be included in the advertised price of the motor
    vehicle, disclosed on the sales contract, and displayed in a conspicuous
    location in the motor vehicle dealership."

    It's a sleazy way of adding additional dealer mark-up to the vehicle
    price, that especially benefits Saturn dealers because they aren't
    allowed by Saturn to add additional dealer mark-up. I'd stay away from
    this dealer just on principle, especially because the fee is so high. If
    it was $30 or $40 it wouldn't be worth arguing about, but $199 is
    outrageous, that's another 1% on a 19,900 car.
    SMS, May 2, 2008
  10. Joe

    -Cronus- Guest


    Why are you replying to yourself.
    -Cronus-, May 2, 2008
  11. Joe

    marx404 Guest

    <quote>It's a sleazy way of adding additional dealer mark-up to the vehicle
    price, that especially benefits Saturn dealers because they aren't
    allowed by Saturn to add additional dealer mark-up.I'd stay away from
    this dealer just on principle, especially because the fee is so

    NO, it's called "disclosure". Most dealerships hit you with some kind of
    closing fee or doc fee and will hide it when you get into the finance
    office. This place simply posted it on the home page - right up front for
    all to see. Again, most places won't even disclose that they have this fee
    and will add it in without your knowledge. This is not the only dealership
    that has this on their website, btw, nor is it the only dealership that
    charges some kind of closing fee. If you don't believe that, then go shop
    Chevy and see what happens. But that's not the real reason you are posting
    these nasties and then replying back to yourself, is it?

    Speaking of "principal" Please stop trolling, .
    marx404, May 3, 2008
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