95 SL won't run properly after 6 months of inactivity

It is to late to call the Car Talk guys this weekend…and I'm not sure
if I would get through regardless. Here is my problem. Perhaps someone
knows a solution that I, everyone I have spoken with about it, and my
mechanic can't seem to find.

We have a 1995 Saturn SL 5 Speed that we keep as a second car. We live
in the city where our two car driveway will only hold one car in front
of the other. Naturally we would rather drive our new Honda and not be
bothered with pulling it out into traffic to get the Saturn and switch
them again when we get home.

Over the winter the Saturn was driven once every two weeks on average
and was progressively more difficult to turn over. Around April it
stopped running. Since we have a one year old boy, I work a lot, and
the second car was not a priority I put off getting the Saturn
repaired. A couple weeks turned into a month then five. One day at the
end of August the car decided to start again. I dutifully drove it
over to my mechanic and contritely told him I was neglectful and
didn't give the car enough use then didn't bring it over soon enough
for repair.

My mechanic couldn't find the source of the problem because it wasn't
showing any symptoms. He did do the following:

Full fuel inspection including pump, gas tank cap…
Clean fuel lines
Replace PVC tube
Replace Spark Plugs and cables
Change Oil and Filter

He told me the car appeared to be in good shape and the fuel pressure
was fine. We did talk a bit about the now six month old tank of gas in
the car. It was still 2/3 full.

After getting the car back it ran fine twice and on the third run It
failed to start back up ½ hour after a 30 minute run. I went back to
it several time that day and never got it going again so I had it
towed back to my mechanic. This time it didn't start for him but did
after putting a little more gas in it. I have since run it two more
times and after a 30 minute run it won't start again.

The car turns over strongly. The battery is new so we know that isn't
the problem. It just seems like there is no gas when it is trying to
fire up. Since the service I have added at least 4-5 gallons of new
gas. If I spray some carb cleaner up the air intake it will start and
run until it is burned off. If I hit the gas it stalls. I have also
put dry gas into the gas tank to remove any condensation problems.

I know I still have at least 5 gallons of the old gas in my tank but
we are running out of things to look at. When the car runs it is very
strong.

I know this is a long post but I hope the info helps. I have promised
everyone to use the car more often. I don't want to sell it as I'm the
original owner and we will likely need a second car if we move out of
the city as we hope to soon. The car has 101K miles on it and this is
the first problem ever.

I'm looking forward to any thought you readers may have.

Chris

 

"riz"wrote in message:

I didn't speak with my mechanic specifically about the alternator.
Considering that the car is 9 years old anything is possible. The car
turns over very strongly and I have had no problems keeping the
battery charged. When it does start it runs strongly.

I have been able to spray carburetor cleaner in the air intake and had
the car starts and runs with briefly. As soon as the cleaner is burned
up the car steadily revs down until it stalls.

If the alternator was bad would I see problems keeping a charge on the
battery or wouldn't it run a tad better if I got it going?

I'm starting to wonder if a sensor is bad or if there is a vacuum or
vapor problem. I know little about these two items.

I have been advised to take the car to the Saturn dealer and perhaps
they might have more experience working on Saturns specifically. This
seems like a gamble to me. I'm sure they could fix it somehow. Heck,
if you replace enough it is bound to work, I guess. I do not find a
great deal of value in paying their oft inflated service prices on a
$1700 car that is driven 3-5K per year. I'm sure my mechanic takes
home more than their mechanics. He just has much less overhead and his
prices reflect that. Also, I trust my mechanic. It just seems that he
seems stumped on this one.

I'm not anti dealer service. In fact, it used to go to Saturn service
when it was newer and our new Honda visits the Honda Service dept when
necessary but it has much more value and is the family car that is
driven daily. This is far from the case with the poor Saturn.

 

I would listen closely to the fuel pump when the car will not run.

When you first turn the key to ON, you should hear the fuel pump run for approx
5 secs. This primes the fuel system so the injectors will be ready to spray
when told to by the PCM.

It is possible that the fuel pump has an intermittant problem and that is not
uncommon. I have actually pounded on the fuel tank with a rubber mallet to
make the pump work long enough to get where I needed to go.

Usually an intermittant problems occurs once the car has been shut off, not
during operation.

The alternator has nothing to do with this kind of problem if the engine cranks
over good.

Good luck, James

 

Most likely bad EGR valve (stuck open) or MAP sensor.

 

I didn't speak with my mechanic specifically about the alternator.

I'd almost bet the farm that its the coolant temp sensor.

The computer uses the CTS to determine how rich the mixture should be for
startup. The mixture isn't rich enough to start the engine - thats why when you
spray flammable stuff into the intake it fires right up. If you continue to
spray carb cleaner for 10 or 15 seconds it should run on its own.

Definitly replace the CTS - its only $10 anyway..........

Its not an alternator issue.............

 

That sounds like a good idea, actually - a friend had this problem. I'm
not sure about the single hamster engine, but on the DOHC (two hamster
it's an easy sensor to pull out - use a 13mm deep socket, 3" or so
extension. The plug takes a bit of techique to pull. Squeeze it and
pull carefully, it comes off when squeezed right - takes a bit of
practice.

Be sure if you have two sensors over on the block to pull the one with
the two wires on it - the other (one wire) just works the gauge.

As an aside - how often do these sensors wear out, and are the IAT and
CTS really the same sensor (i.e. can I swap them?)?

Once you're running, go through that tank of gas, refill, and maybe add
a fuel injector cleaner. Might be a bit gummy in there.

 

After calling the mechanic who was working on the Saturn I decided it
was time to let Saturn service have a go. My conversation with my
mechanic didn't inspire much confidence. He said he could keep
looking. He reminded me that the car had to be in the throws of the
problem for him to find the problem. I reminded him that it was in the
throws of the problem when it was towed to him last week. What is the
difference between now and then? Don't ask me why it started for him
last week after he did some tinkering. Don't ask me why he couldn't
find the problem. He sounded a little frustrated and I had to assume
he was stumped or over his head.

So... Yesterday I had the car towed to the Saturn dealer. Saturn put
their head mechanic on it and he found the problem right away. The
fuel pump relay was shot. $140 part and labor. I'm kicking myself that
I didn't take it there in the first place. It would have saved me the
$480 that I spent up to that point. Two tows and lots of inspecting,
cleaning, and replacing of related parts.

The bright side is that lots of preventive maintenance was done. The
car runs great and hopefully will continue to do so for a while.

Next up, new brakes, new exhaust, new shocks and new locking core (I'm
the only one who can turn the key these days...It takes a special
touch.).

Thanks everyone for their input. I suppose that someone is going to
say the fuel pump relay should have been an easy find.

 

I believe you and your mechanic hit on the answer to your problem when you
talked about the six-month-old gas in the tank. Over time, gasoline will
deteriorate to the point where it won't even burn, meaning, of course, your
car won't run. Even though you put some new gas in the tank, you should
completely drain the tank and refill with fresh gasoline. And even though
your plugs are new, either replace them again or clean them thoroughly. I
suspect when you do that, your Saturn will again run fine. If you continue
to plan on not driving your car much in the future, either drain the tank or
put some Stabil gasoline stabilizer in the tank. Good luck.

 

I seem to have posted my follow-up as a seperate posting. Here it is
again. Follow-up to the follow-up.... The car is still running great.
Guess that fuel pump relay was a goner.

Original follow-up:

After calling the mechanic who was working on the Saturn I decided it
was time to let Saturn service have a go. My conversation with my
mechanic didn't inspire much confidence. He said he could keep
looking. He reminded me that the car had to be in the throws of the
problem for him to find the problem. I reminded him that it was in the
throws of the problem when it was towed to him last week. What is the
difference between now and then? Don't ask me why it started for him
last week after he did some tinkering. Don't ask me why he couldn't
find the problem. He sounded a little frustrated and I had to assume
he was stumped or over his head.

So... Yesterday I had the car towed to the Saturn dealer. Saturn put
their head mechanic on it and he found the problem right away. The
fuel pump relay was shot. $140 part and labor. I'm kicking myself that
I didn't take it there in the first place. It would have saved me the
$480 that I spent up to that point. Two tows and lots of inspecting,
cleaning, and replacing of related parts.

The bright side is that lots of preventive maintenance was done. The
car runs great and hopefully will continue to do so for a while.

Next up, new brakes, new exhaust, new shocks and new locking core (I'm
the only one who can turn the key these days...It takes a special
touch.).

Thanks everyone for their input. I suppose that someone is going to
say the fuel pump relay should have been an easy find.