$3500 engine in '95 SW2, worth it?

Discussion in 'Saturn S-series' started by elephantcelebes, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. Is it worth dropping in a new engine, or simply letting the repair shop
    make it disappear? It only has 78k miles, so the body and interior are
    quite intact.
     
    elephantcelebes, Feb 18, 2006
    #1
  2. elephantcelebes

    marx404 Guest

    Is this a car that you really have some personal attachment to? If not,
    consider what you are sinking that money into. Check out your SW's value on
    www.kbb.com and see what its worth. If you invest in this engine, the value
    of the car remains the same in retail value, unfortunately dont expect a
    return on your investment, that is, unless this is a car that you will keep
    for many years, enought to see that return in your investment by driving it.

    IMHO, if you love your SW as much as I loved my '94 SL2, and want to keep
    your baby, for another 5-10 yrs, then its a good personal investment. I was
    considering a crate engine just before she got totalled. Just dont expect to
    sell it down the road to make a return on your expenses. (Unless you mod it
    out like crazy and sell it on the street)

    So the balls back in your court, ask yourself: "$3500 engine in'95 SW2,
    worth it?"

    marx404
     
    marx404, Feb 18, 2006
    #2
  3. elephantcelebes

    K2NNJ Guest

    Get a real car. Try a toyota or nissan. Saturn is garbage. I know 1st
    hand, I own one. GM Sucks, now matter how low they price their cars.

    You don't see Toyota offereing all these "dangle a carrot" deals. Because
    they know they build good vehicles.
     
    K2NNJ, Feb 18, 2006
    #3
  4. elephantcelebes

    blah blah Guest

    Yup your credibility has went out the window right there...

    Dont even get me started on Nissans sh**.
     
    blah blah, Feb 18, 2006
    #4
  5. Got a Toyota, had a Saturn and it's not that simple. Saturn started out
    chasing the Civic market, and I think the original S models were on to
    something. Spaceframe, polymer panels, torquey 4-bangers, and customer
    service that was just unheard of back in the early 90's. It was a product
    that should have grown like the Civic and Corolla, not stayed stagnate, and
    then with the old 1-2 punch, dropped for a multi-platform answer with the
    ION/COBALT (that's the GM mentality I don't like).

    When I was shopping for my Toyota in 2004 I got an '05 because it was
    supposed to have the better tranny (that didn't have probs with overdrive
    when towing) - oh btw, this is a pickup. Also, earlier models had brake
    probs.

    Don't get me started on Nissan (Datsun) - the model I was looking at had
    crazy build quality (one good, two bad, three good, etc) which made you
    think of Detroit in the mid 70's.

    When the Toyota is paid for I should be starting my mid-life crisis and will
    definitely check out the SKY. I have finally warmed up to Honda's S2000,
    but I'd like to have another Saturn. We'll see what out's there and how
    they stack up.

    I'm not brand loyal (unless you're talking about something important like
    Guinness).
     
    Jonnie Santos, Feb 18, 2006
    #5
  6. In my case it is pure economics. I can effectively buy back my own car
    for $3500 in repairs, or plunk down $whatever for a Toyota. That new
    little blob that Toyota is planning on introducing this spring would
    sure be a nice city car, which is all I need. I have not ruled out
    buying some old wreck. Repairing my own car has some marginal value
    compared to replacing it, because I would know that it was never
    flooded or totalled or smoked in. My mechanic has warned me tha the new
    engine will be the same GM design.

    Total cost of ownership. $whatever gets me a car that lasts for however
    many years. Dollars per year. I am quite objective about this.

    Please understand that I am trying to avoid trolling or feeding the
    trolls, even though I have to admit that I am quite annoyed by this
    situation. There are others who must have faced the same dilemma.
     
    elephantcelebes, Feb 18, 2006
    #6
  7. If you dont want to do it, I will do it. Where is the car located? I would
    buy it if you dont want it. I am in Ohio.
     
    TheLastDonSC2, Feb 18, 2006
    #7
  8. elephantcelebes

    marx404 Guest

    elephant, nope you aint trolling, I been in the same situation with our '93
    SL1. When our tranny needed replacement at 150K miles, my wife decided to
    replace it rather than spend on a new car why? because this is a car she
    wants to "run into the ground" and that she absolutely loves. If this is
    your case, why not?

    Another resolve would be to look in the paper for a $4-5K car and see what
    you find, not every used car is a POS, although it may be tough to find one
    as nice as yours. If the interior is mint on your SW I would replace the
    engine if youre keeping the car.

    As far as the upcoming Toyota Yaris, I thought you bought a Saturn for
    safety? Think about it, I walked out of a totalled '94 SL2, think youll do
    that in Toyotas equivalent to a Yugo? Youre better off keeping the SW2 and
    far safer IMHO.

    marx404
     
    marx404, Feb 18, 2006
    #8
  9. elephantcelebes

    blah blah Guest

    $3500 seems pretty steep to me. I've passed over brand new 3800 crate
    motors on ebay for 400-500 and kicked myself for it. To bad you cant fit
    an Ecotec to it. Its hard to find decent station wagons anymore and the
    s-series made for the best little wagon around. However I think you can
    find one just like it, late 90's or better, at an auction for less than
    what it would take to repair yours. (I'm talking 1000-2500 bucks) The
    Twincams are decent little engines, what happened to yours? And please,
    just say no to "little blobs".
     
    blah blah, Feb 18, 2006
    #9
  10. From what I understand, it is a typical Twincam -- oil burning since
    50k miles, and it ran down below the dipstick a couple times. Timing
    chain (touted as a reliability feature, remember?) skipped a tooth. Car
    now fails compression test.

    Ah, decisions, decisions. I am not delighted with the idea of buying a
    used car, as I am just not a good enough mechanic to judge if the car
    has been flood damaged, totalled, etc.
     
    elephantcelebes, Feb 18, 2006
    #10
  11. elephantcelebes

    Private Guest

    From the previous posts I thought you had a really serious problem but based
    on what you said above would suggest you consider.

    1-Buy a manual. Chilton's is thicker than Haynes but both are cheap and
    often one will have a better illustration while the other has a better text.
    Neither is perfect but both are a fraction of the factory manual cost.

    2-Pull the head and remove the oil pan and pull the pistons and oil pump.
    Have a good automotive machine shop check the pump, pistons and the rods for
    cracks or bending or excessive wear. Have the head checked for cracks .

    3-Check the cylinders for wear and (fine) hone lightly to remove the glaze
    and establish a nice crosshatch to assist in engine break-in and oil
    control. Make sure to wash ALL the grit from honing from the internal
    engine thoroughly. Clean (or probably replace) the chain adjuster and oil
    passages.

    4-Assess and price your options

    5-Have your head rebuilt by a quality automotive machine shop, make sure
    they give you a firm quote after inspection and before rebuilding and
    compare with cost of new head. I do not favour exchange units as the
    exchange may not be as good as yours and many rebuilders will deny core
    credit after they see your head. Only go exchange if you are guaranteed
    that your core is acceptable before you take the exchange

    6-assemble engine using new rings and bearings and a new timing chain and
    tensioner. Congratulations you have just performed an inframe engine
    overhaul which will be a LOT cheaper than $3500.

    I have no idea how the clutch has been used so this still may mean you need
    to pull the motor or tranny to replace the clutch a some time and many would
    suggest that now would be a good time to bite the bullet and pull the engine
    to install a new clutch and so the machine shop can do a complete engine
    overhaul including new oversize pistons (more $). Whether this is the best
    route will depend on what you discover when you look inside after the head
    is off.

    If you look inside and find that the engine is uneconomic to repair you
    still have the option of purchasing a good running vehicle (91-95) with the
    same tranny type and using one as a parts car for the other (you do need a
    place to store the unused car). A complete running car with mounted tires
    and fair battery (and hopefully a good windshield) may be a lot cheaper than
    the cost of a new engine or complete rebuild. The first rule of mechanics
    is that nothing you have a spare part for ever fails. It would be best if
    you were not in a hurry, as the smell of desperation always raises the price
    of everything. (But then I suspect that being in a hurry is how you got
    here!)

    In any case no matter what you do, modify your operating style so you NEVER
    let the oil get below 1/2 on the stick. The time you saved by failing to
    properly monitor and replace your oil is probably the cause of most of your
    problem and you have now lost far more time than you ever saved and are
    going to lose a LOT more before this is done. I my business WE CHECK THE
    OIL AND COOLANT LEVEL IN EVERY ENGINE BEFORE EACH DAILY STARTUP, and often
    after lunch. It is simple, easy, free and I have never seen a dipstick worn
    out from over use.

    Good luck.
     
    Private, Feb 18, 2006
    #11
  12. I check the oil level on my 95 SW1 every day, sometimes twice. The rest of
    the cars in the family get their fluids checked less often, but no less than
    twice a week. I have never had an oil related failure.

    I bet that most Saturns which need new engines are from the oil level going
    low.

    -David
     
    David Teichholtz, Feb 19, 2006
    #12
  13. You are correct that I am now in a hurry. Had I known that the engine
    was so sensitive -- unlike any car I have ever owned -- I would
    obviously filled it at the half quart mark instead of the mark
    indicated on the dipstick. Remember that the dipstick, owners manual,
    and engine, all came out of the same design process.
     
    elephantcelebes, Feb 19, 2006
    #13
  14. elephantcelebes

    Lane Guest

    I could not agree with marx404 more. Fixing the car you own will always be
    cheaper than buying a new one. If you like the car enough to continue
    driving it and it's in good shape otherwise, I'd get 'er fixed.

    Everyone talks about the "value" of a car and whether something like this is
    "worth it". Value is based on perspective, however. The value of my car to
    someone else isn't much. But to me it is a LOT, since it is paid for and
    continuing to drive it keeps me from having to buy a new one.

    Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
     
    Lane, Feb 19, 2006
    #14
  15. elephantcelebes

    SMS Guest

    Remember that the replacement engine is not guaranteed to be any better
    than the original engine. Given the quality of Saturn engines, it could
    also last only 78K miles.
     
    SMS, Mar 1, 2006
    #15
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