$3500 engine in '95 SW2, worth it?

[elephantcelebes]

Is it worth dropping in a new engine, or simply letting the repair shop make it disappear? It only has 78k miles, so the body and interior are quite intact.

 

[marx404]

Is this a car that you really have some personal attachment to? If not, consider what you are sinking that money into. Check out your SW's value on www.kbb.com and see what its worth. If you invest in this engine, the value of the car remains the same in retail value, unfortunately dont expect a return on your investment, that is, unless this is a car that you will keep for many years, enought to see that return in your investment by driving it.

IMHO, if you love your SW as much as I loved my '94 SL2, and want to keep your baby, for another 5-10 yrs, then its a good personal investment. I was considering a crate engine just before she got totalled. Just dont expect to sell it down the road to make a return on your expenses. (Unless you mod it out like crazy and sell it on the street)

So the balls back in your court, ask yourself: "$3500 engine in'95 SW2, worth it?"

marx404

 

[K2NNJ]

Get a real car. Try a toyota or nissan. Saturn is garbage. I know 1st hand, I own one. GM Sucks, now matter how low they price their cars.

You don't see Toyota offereing all these "dangle a carrot" deals. Because they know they build good vehicles.

 

[blah blah]

Get a real car. Try a toyota or nissan.

Yup your credibility has went out the window right there...

Dont even get me started on Nissans sh**.

 

[Jonnie Santos]

Got a Toyota, had a Saturn and it's not that simple. Saturn started out chasing the Civic market, and I think the original S models were on to something. Spaceframe, polymer panels, torquey 4-bangers, and customer service that was just unheard of back in the early 90's. It was a product that should have grown like the Civic and Corolla, not stayed stagnate, and then with the old 1-2 punch, dropped for a multi-platform answer with the ION/COBALT (that's the GM mentality I don't like).

When I was shopping for my Toyota in 2004 I got an '05 because it was supposed to have the better tranny (that didn't have probs with overdrive when towing) - oh btw, this is a pickup. Also, earlier models had brake probs.

Don't get me started on Nissan (Datsun) - the model I was looking at had crazy build quality (one good, two bad, three good, etc) which made you think of Detroit in the mid 70's.

When the Toyota is paid for I should be starting my mid-life crisis and will definitely check out the SKY. I have finally warmed up to Honda's S2000, but I'd like to have another Saturn. We'll see what out's there and how they stack up.

I'm not brand loyal (unless you're talking about something important like Guinness).

 

[elephantcelebes]

In my case it is pure economics. I can effectively buy back my own car for $3500 in repairs, or plunk down $whatever for a Toyota. That new little blob that Toyota is planning on introducing this spring would sure be a nice city car, which is all I need. I have not ruled out buying some old wreck. Repairing my own car has some marginal value compared to replacing it, because I would know that it was never flooded or totalled or smoked in. My mechanic has warned me tha the new engine will be the same GM design.

Total cost of ownership. $whatever gets me a car that lasts for however many years. Dollars per year. I am quite objective about this.

Please understand that I am trying to avoid trolling or feeding the trolls, even though I have to admit that I am quite annoyed by this situation. There are others who must have faced the same dilemma.

 

[TheLastDonSC2]

If you dont want to do it, I will do it. Where is the car located? I would buy it if you dont want it. I am in Ohio.

 

[marx404]

elephant, nope you aint trolling, I been in the same situation with our '93 SL1. When our tranny needed replacement at 150K miles, my wife decided to replace it rather than spend on a new car why? because this is a car she wants to "run into the ground" and that she absolutely loves. If this is your case, why not?

Another resolve would be to look in the paper for a $4-5K car and see what you find, not every used car is a POS, although it may be tough to find one as nice as yours. If the interior is mint on your SW I would replace the engine if youre keeping the car.

As far as the upcoming Toyota Yaris, I thought you bought a Saturn for safety? Think about it, I walked out of a totalled '94 SL2, think youll do that in Toyotas equivalent to a Yugo? Youre better off keeping the SW2 and far safer IMHO.

marx404

 

[blah blah]

In my case it is pure economics. I can effectively buy back my own car for $3500 in repairs, or plunk down $whatever for a Toyota. That new little blob that Toyota is planning on introducing this spring would sure be a nice city car, which is all I need. I have not ruled out buying some old wreck. Repairing my own car has some marginal value compared to replacing it, because I would know that it was never flooded or totalled or smoked in. My mechanic has warned me tha the new engine will be the same GM design.

Total cost of ownership. $whatever gets me a car that lasts for however many years. Dollars per year. I am quite objective about this.

Please understand that I am trying to avoid trolling or feeding the trolls, even though I have to admit that I am quite annoyed by this situation. There are others who must have faced the same dilemma.

$3500 seems pretty steep to me. I've passed over brand new 3800 crate motors on ebay for 400-500 and kicked myself for it. To bad you cant fit an Ecotec to it. Its hard to find decent station wagons anymore and the s-series made for the best little wagon around. However I think you can find one just like it, late 90's or better, at an auction for less than what it would take to repair yours. (I'm talking 1000-2500 bucks) The Twincams are decent little engines, what happened to yours? And please, just say no to "little blobs".

 

[elephantcelebes]

From what I understand, it is a typical Twincam -- oil burning since 50k miles, and it ran down below the dipstick a couple times. Timing chain (touted as a reliability feature, remember?) skipped a tooth. Car now fails compression test.

Ah, decisions, decisions. I am not delighted with the idea of buying a used car, as I am just not a good enough mechanic to judge if the car has been flood damaged, totalled, etc.

 

[Private]

50k miles, and it ran down below the dipstick a couple times. Timing chain (touted as a reliability feature, remember?) skipped a tooth. Car now fails compression test.

Ah, decisions, decisions. I am not delighted with the idea of buying a used car, as I am just not a good enough mechanic to judge if the car has been flood damaged, totalled, etc.

From the previous posts I thought you had a really serious problem but based on what you said above would suggest you consider.

1-Buy a manual. Chilton's is thicker than Haynes but both are cheap and often one will have a better illustration while the other has a better text. Neither is perfect but both are a fraction of the factory manual cost.

2-Pull the head and remove the oil pan and pull the pistons and oil pump. Have a good automotive machine shop check the pump, pistons and the rods for cracks or bending or excessive wear. Have the head checked for cracks .

3-Check the cylinders for wear and (fine) hone lightly to remove the glaze and establish a nice crosshatch to assist in engine break-in and oil control. Make sure to wash ALL the grit from honing from the internal engine thoroughly. Clean (or probably replace) the chain adjuster and oil passages.

4-Assess and price your options

5-Have your head rebuilt by a quality automotive machine shop, make sure they give you a firm quote after inspection and before rebuilding and compare with cost of new head. I do not favour exchange units as the exchange may not be as good as yours and many rebuilders will deny core credit after they see your head. Only go exchange if you are guaranteed that your core is acceptable before you take the exchange

6-assemble engine using new rings and bearings and a new timing chain and tensioner. Congratulations you have just performed an inframe engine overhaul which will be a LOT cheaper than $3500.

I have no idea how the clutch has been used so this still may mean you need to pull the motor or tranny to replace the clutch a some time and many would suggest that now would be a good time to bite the bullet and pull the engine to install a new clutch and so the machine shop can do a complete engine overhaul including new oversize pistons (more $). Whether this is the best route will depend on what you discover when you look inside after the head is off.

If you look inside and find that the engine is uneconomic to repair you still have the option of purchasing a good running vehicle (91-95) with the same tranny type and using one as a parts car for the other (you do need a place to store the unused car). A complete running car with mounted tires and fair battery (and hopefully a good windshield) may be a lot cheaper than the cost of a new engine or complete rebuild. The first rule of mechanics is that nothing you have a spare part for ever fails. It would be best if you were not in a hurry, as the smell of desperation always raises the price of everything. (But then I suspect that being in a hurry is how you got here!)

In any case no matter what you do, modify your operating style so you NEVER let the oil get below 1/2 on the stick. The time you saved by failing to properly monitor and replace your oil is probably the cause of most of your problem and you have now lost far more time than you ever saved and are going to lose a LOT more before this is done. I my business WE CHECK THE OIL AND COOLANT LEVEL IN EVERY ENGINE BEFORE EACH DAILY STARTUP, and often after lunch. It is simple, easy, free and I have never seen a dipstick worn out from over use.

Good luck.

 

[David Teichholtz]

going to lose a LOT more before this is done. I my business WE CHECK THE OIL AND COOLANT LEVEL IN EVERY ENGINE BEFORE EACH DAILY STARTUP, and often after lunch. It is simple, easy, free and I have never seen a dipstick worn out from over use.

I check the oil level on my 95 SW1 every day, sometimes twice. The rest of the cars in the family get their fluids checked less often, but no less than twice a week. I have never had an oil related failure.

I bet that most Saturns which need new engines are from the oil level going low.

-David

 

[elephantcelebes]

You are correct that I am now in a hurry. Had I known that the engine was so sensitive -- unlike any car I have ever owned -- I would obviously filled it at the half quart mark instead of the mark indicated on the dipstick. Remember that the dipstick, owners manual, and engine, all came out of the same design process.

 

[Lane (2)]

I could not agree with marx404 more. Fixing the car you own will always be cheaper than buying a new one. If you like the car enough to continue driving it and it's in good shape otherwise, I'd get 'er fixed.

Everyone talks about the "value" of a car and whether something like this is "worth it". Value is based on perspective, however. The value of my car to someone else isn't much. But to me it is a LOT, since it is paid for and continuing to drive it keeps me from having to buy a new one.

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]

 

[SMS]

Is it worth dropping in a new engine, or simply letting the repair shop make it disappear? It only has 78k miles, so the body and interior are quite intact.

Remember that the replacement engine is not guaranteed to be any better than the original engine. Given the quality of Saturn engines, it could also last only 78K miles.