2002 saturn sl2 wheel noise

[SATURNman]

Hey I have a 2002 saturn sl2. That I just had all 4 struts changed on it. A few issues with the braking system. But afterwards drove fine until about a month ago. Now it sounds like the wheel on driver side front is bumping slightly when driving. Also I noticed the inside wall of tire is wearing out almost to the threads inside the wall. (Struts included the bushing and other parts to get the alignment right on this side) Could my wheel hub need to be replaced?

 

[Derf]

Check all of the motor mounts and the transmission mount. One of them may have collapsed or torn, resulting in the engine and transmission shifting, bringing the wheel along for the ride

 

[rwa5659]

Hey I have a 2002 saturn sl2. That I just had all 4 struts changed on it. A few issues with the braking system. But afterwards drove fine until about a month ago. Now it sounds like the wheel on driver side front is bumping slightly when driving. Also I noticed the inside wall of tire is wearing out almost to the threads inside the wall. (Struts included the bushing and other parts to get the alignment right on this side) Could my wheel hub need to be replaced?

When I replaced the Struts on my 2000 SL2 I noticed that there is no CAM BOLT (inside or outside type) on the Original Saturn Struts made specifically for the Saturn. You'll note both the Upper and Lower Bolt HOLES ON ORIGINAL STRUT are exactly the same size. That insures the CAMBER is set and doesn't allow the camber to be changed by road conditions, such as hitting a lot of pot holes and bumps.

With Aftermarket Struts what you'll find is what appears to be an over sized thick washer with them. That Washer allows the Nut to take place of a needed CAMBER BOLT so your NUT can still be tightened down to avoid hitting the protruding NOTCH on the Aftermarket Struts where the top Bolt goes. Your original Saturn STRUTS had NO SUCH protruding notch. The holes for the BOLTS TO STRUT on the ORIGINAL STRUTS were drilled exactly the same so that the CAMBER would be the same if you replaced them with ORIGINAL SATURN MANUFACTURED STRUTS.

When you look at the TWO BOLT HOLES of an aftermarket STRUT you will see the bottom bolt hole looks perfectly round while the top hole looks ELONGATED not perfectly round. That ELONGATED hole allows for adjustment of the CAMBER by a specially designed bolt.

The NOTCH ON AFTERMARKET STRUTS is where a special CAM BOLT strikes to adjust the TIRE CAMBER. That in layman's terms means that the tire can be adjusted to AN INWARD OR OUTWARD TILT know as CAMBER. When you put the NEW STRUT on without those NEEDED CAM BOLTS the STRUT pivots on the BOTTOM BOLT and movement of the TIRE is allowed at the TOP BOLT by the ELONGATED SLOT.

The TIRE without the special CAM BOLT when pushed in at the top and the bolts tightened down will cause the Tire to slant Inwards at the TOP and Outwards at the bottom, causing EXCESSIVE TREAD WEAR on the INNER Treads of the TIRE. Without Special Cam Bolts, when pulled out and bolts tightened down the Tire will slant Inwards at the BOTTOM and Outwards at the Top causing EXCESSIVE TREAD WEAR on the outer Treads.


I believe you may be hearing that bumping noise when your making turns, possibly more so when making either a left or right turn, now that the tire has worn down. I'm surprised you're not feeling a pop once in a while in the steering wheel especially when turning (mainly left) at slower speeds. Is that occurring yet?

If you haven't already purchased the special CAM BOLTS you should do it now. If you have already purchased them and had them already installed and this occurred afterwards you need a realignment. You can do a home alignment yourself but without those NEEDED CAM BOLTS any alignment can easily be knocked off after just a few good hard hitting pot holes.

I've added a few more pointers if you are having any other noise problems in the front area. If you're experiencing any of those problems you may have other problems that need to be addressed before getting an alignment. A worn out LOWER BALL JOINT can also cause the EXCESSIVE INNER TIRE Tread wear.

I've owned a Saturn SL2 for nearly 2 decades. I don't know if they are the same when it comes to the suspension but my Chilton's Manual I have is for the 1991 to 2002. So here are a few things I'd check. I'm only advising as to what problems I have come across with my 2000 Saturn SL2 and steps taken. I had replaced all 4 Struts on my 2000 SL2 with over 120K miles because they were defective and I had a lot of thumping noise in the front.

When replacing old worn out Struts with new ones, problems you were not aware of reveal themselves. First after replacing the Struts get an alignment done. The technician should advise you then of problems they've found that will help you with problems you really didn't know was there. I found these problems myself before an alignment was done because the thumping noise was still there even after replacing all 4 struts. Look for problems such as a worn out Lower Ball Joint, or Tie Rod, or one or both of the 2 Bushings on the Lower Control arm or a combination of any of them.

There is a rubber bushing at the Lower Control Arm end which attaches to the Cradle and another rubber bushing nearest the Lower Ball Joint where the Sway Bar attaches. I've found the one at the Sway Bar to Lower Control Arm seems to be a cause of a lot of problems with thumping noises. It was evident by what I found after removing the Lower Control Arm that the rubber had worn down so much it had been cut through allowing the metal of the Sway Bar to hit against the metal of the Control Arm. I discovered that the rubber bushing there is under a lot of pressure which appears to be why it will wear out a lot faster.

When I say pressure, if you decide to replace either of the 2 Rubber Bushings or the Ball Joint, you'll have to first remove the Sway Bar from the Control Arm. Just to take off the Lower Control Arm there are things you will need to do to pull the Sway Bar back towards the Cradle just to relieve the pressure to disconnect it from the Lower Control Arm. I've found using a long Tie Down Strap (type with ratchet for tightening) and attach it at the point closest to where the Sway Bar goes into the Lower Control Arm. Pull the Strap at an angle to the opposite side of the vehicle back to the hole in the car frame just in front of the rear Tire and put the hook in that hole.

 

[rwa5659]

Check all of the motor mounts and the transmission mount. One of them may have collapsed or torn, resulting in the engine and transmission shifting, bringing the wheel along for the ride

(CONT)

For example if the Control Arm you want to remove is on the passenger side, place the hook of the Strap in the hole in the Frame in front of the Back Drivers Side Tire. Always on the opposite side you're removing the Control Arm from. You'll have to make sure one part of the Strap will go over the top of the Cradle and the other under the cradle. Before cranking on the Strap Ratchet I've unloosened and backed out all 4 of the 13 mm bolts of the Sway Bar a little way to let the Sway Bar sit there held up by the two Brackets. I'll try to attach a photo if someone is interested in seeing that.


Just before cranking the Strap I removed ONLY the 2 bolts and the metal bracket (you DON'T need to remove the rubber mount) on the side you're removing the Lower Control Arm from. Leaving the opposite Sway Bar metal bracket on (but loose) for the Bar to rest on. For example if you're removing the Passenger Side Lower Control Arm only remove the Metal Bracket on that side leaving the one on the opposite side on. If you replace both the Lower Control Arms you can get the Sway Bar into either one without easily without using the Ratcheting Strap but you'll need it to put in the second one.


Most, long before getting to this point will have check the Sway Bar Rubber Bushings closely to see if they are worn out and some have replaced them believing them to be the problem only to find afterwards the thumping is still there. There are diagrams online to show you what to look for to identify a worn out Sway Bar Bushing. Many check there first before going to Lower Control Arm mainly because it's easier to replace and less costly. It's best to go ahead and replace them anyways, if they have never been replaced before, since you're doing all that to get to replace the Lower Control Arm Bushings or Ball Joint.


I don't know if you experienced the thumping in the area of the front before you replaced the Struts but that is what leads most to think it's all because of the Struts. In many cases the Struts are worn out by mileage on them or roads you travel a lot are riddled with potholes. One test that you can perform to find out if a Strut is bad is to go out and push down hard on the car at the fender closet to the tire. If it bounces up and down a lot after releasing it, it's usually a sign of a bad strut. If it's really bad, the possibility of one or both of the bushings or even the Lower Ball joint on the Lower Control Arm joint have worn out after having absorbed most of the shock from pot holes and such. A lot of the thumping noises I've seen are mainly due to one or both of those rubber bushings having worn out.


To check any problem with the Lower Ball Joint you can check simply by jacking up ONLY the side of the car your checking for defects, off the surface, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A JACK STAND UNDER IT WHILE DOING THIS, Put one hand on the bottom of the Tire and One Hand on the Top inside part of the Tire. While pushing inwards at the bottom and pulling outwards at the top, wiggle it several times. If there is a lot of movement doing this, that is a sign the Lower Ball Joint may be worn out. You can use this same method to check the Tie Rod by Grabbing the Tire on the Left and Right (HORIZONTALLY) and wiggle it. If there is a lot of movement the Tie Rod may be worn out and needs replaced. If you hear a popping noise during either test for the Lower Ball Joint or Tie Rod that's usually a definite sign they need replaced. If you can see the Tie Rod during that test you may even see the movement.


If the Lower Ball Joint and Tie Rods are Original you'll note there is no Grease Fitting at the bottom of either. As they age the Rubber boot on top will dry out crack and allow dust and dirt to get into there, attach itself to the Grease needed to lubricate them to prevent wear. Having no Grease fittings at the bottom of the joint does not allow for replacement of lost grease. This will eventually lead to the joints wearing out faster. Some after market manufactures may or may not provide a grease fitting even with replacement parts but some offer a lifetime warranty which I have brought because I plan to have the vehicle for years. If it fails in the future you just take it back and get a new one. The extra few bucks you may pay for one with lifetime warranty will pay off if you plan to keep the car for years.


You can purchase the Lower Ball Joint, the Bushing for the Sway Bar and the end Bushing that attaches to the end at Cradle separately but be aware that you'll need a Tool to press out OUT the Old and press IN the Lower Ball Joint and Cradle Bushing. You can replace the Rubber Bushing attaching the Sway Bar without any special Tool but it too is a little difficult to do especially without a Vise or someone or something to hold it while installing the new one.


If you believe the Lower Ball Joint is defective most likely the End Bushing and the Sway Bar Bushing are also. You may go and replace only one of three, get it all back together to find one of the other two are defective and have to go through all that again to replace the one of both of other 2. I find that it's much less time consuming and less expensive to just replace the entire Lower Control Arm for it has all 3 parts. If you replace only one part and it's fine it will most likely be a matter of time before one of the other two parts fail. I had this failure on the Lower Ball Joint and Sway Bar Bushing of the Passenger Side and the Sway Bar Bushing on the Drivers Side so I had everything I needed out already and replaced both the Lower Control Arms, with all 3 parts and it resolved all the thumps and banging.

 

[Derf]

Thank you for the thesis.

Things I wouldn't do:

Lower ball joint is integral to the LCA. If it's hosed, just replace the LCA.

Do not under any circumstances disconnect either of the sway bar brackets at the front of the vehicle unless you are replacing the rubber insulators which, in my experience, may look dried out but are still rather flexible on the portions that actually touch the sway bar and the frame.
The sway bar is under an immense amount of stress because it has to have the ends flexed in in order to have those ends align with the holes in the LCA. Just use the strap method to pull one end at a time in to release the tension against the LCA. Otherwise after you take it off, the LCA, it's more or less impossible to align the cradle to LCA bolt, ball joint to hub, and sway bar to LCA. Although you can always use a crowbar to get them into alignment, it's a pain in the ass.

There's probably other stuff up there I wouldn't do, but the drone of the intermittent capital letters left me to skim.

As for maintaining alignment while driving down the road, if you actually torque the bottom bolts to spec where they attach the strut to the knuckle, nothing is going anywhere. That's the whole point of alignment. You align everything within specifications, you tighten it down, and you drive the thing.

Depending on the suspension configuration, yes, the actual camber or to may change during driving conditions, but that's because of how the rest of the suspension is behaving, not because the lower bolts on a strut are loose enough to allow the struts to move.

And the 1991 to 2002 book from Chilton is the worst of the three of them. It tells you nothing about anything in particular. Look into the 91 to 98