1998 SL2 - cracked cylinder?

I bought my 98 SL2 less than a year ago from a local used car dealer
here in WV. It had 119,000 miles on it, and drove very smooth. I
THOUGHT I did my homework. I did a CarFax report on it, came up
perfectly clean. I took it to a good mechanic BEFORE I bought it who
told me it was in excellent condition.

Well, I drove the car from WV to FL, because thats where I go to
college, and when I get there I see there is no oil left in the car. I
had just gotten rid of an older car that burnt oil like crazy, so I
didnt really think much of it other than to fill it up and watch what
happens. Well it didnt leak, I never saw it burn in the exhaust, the
only connection I could make is that it only appeared to lose oil when
I drove long distances. Yet it still seemed somewhat random. This
summer, I drove 3 hours to go camping to find the oil empty, filled it
back up, and on the drive back no oil had burnt at all.

In the past few weeks it seems to be losing oil faster than usual, and
the coolant light in the dash is coming on about 75% of the time the
car is driving. So, last night I got online and started looking up the
problem and found out about the whole "cracked cylinder head" (?)
situation, and needless to say, it shocks me. It fits my situation
perfectly, and I did indeed find oil inside the coolant.

I am a college student, and barely have enough money for gas, let alone
an in depth engine job like this. The dealer I got it from will most
likely be of no help, and since I don't really know what im talking
about when it comes to cars, I dont want to get screwed over on this.

I was wondering if anyone could help me with this...
1) I want to make sure that it is indeed a cracked cylinder...is this
possible without pulling the engine out entirely?
2) What exactly should I tell the service people so that they dont try
to charge me for some extraneous costs and/or fix the proper thing?
3)I've heard that Saturn's Customer Service can be finaggled into
paying for some of the bill for this, since its was *almost* a recall.
Is this true? and how can I pull it off?
4) Is there anywhere, perhaps other than a commercial repair manual,
that I might be able to find more information about this problem with
the engine? Ive seen the words "cylinder head" and "head gasket" used
almost interchangably when talking of this problem, and Id like to know
what the difference is, if any.

Other than this, the car runs pretty well for a used car...the "lock"
button on the drivers side went out, and the back passenger side power
window seems to have died...and my reverse lights...but those all seem
fairly trivial. Anyway, any help I could get on this would be greatly
appreciated...im hoping to make this car last at least another 3 years!
Hope its possible!

 

You could "let it go" - sell it to someone who can fix it. (Ebay might
be an option) Then you might be able to buy a "lesser" or cheaper car
that IS in good condition.
You could bite the bullet and become an "instant Mechanic" - buy all
the service manuals a good basic tool set and "go for it". Realize that
most real mechanics have no super powers and are rarely members of
"mensa" (though I suppose a few are).
You could become best friends with a gearhead who can help you out with
selecting and replacing an engine from a junkyard...

Back when I was a kid, I was almost in the same situation you are in.
Fortunately my grandfather lived only 60 miles from my college - not a
mechanic but a machinist. He didnt really instruct me or do any work
for me, but helped me get pointed in the right direction whenever I got
"stuck".
Replacing a cylinder head on an overhead cam engine was my first step.
Later on I fully rebuilt at least half a dozen engines. (Including a
Harley that I still ride.)

Back to your engine.

Cracked Cylinder is a MUCH worse situation than a cracked cylinder
head. Its possible that the problem might be only a head gasket.
(which you'll have to remove the head to replace)

You can replace a cylinder head without removing the engine from the
car. You can probably buy a used cylinder head from a local junkyard
(or, again - ebay). The gasket sets you'd need are available from any
parts store.

HOWEVER. In my experience, oil consumption has been an indicator of
bad rings or scored cylinder walls. It might be that your oil burning
is gradual enough that you cannot "see it" and the catalytic converter
MIGHT be hiding the evidence....

Consider this. The oil is going SOMEWHERE. Is quart after quart going
from your cylinder head to your radiator? I dont think so.

In the condition its in, it probably wont pass a safety inspection (not
unless they dont worry about emissions and backup lights where you
live). That's probably not going to work for you if you intend to
drive it for three more years - so youre obviously going to have to do
SOMETHING.

It could be that by allowing your oil to get so low that you have done
some real damage to your engine and it just might be such junk now that
an entire replacement is in order.
That could be done for a little bit over a thousand dollars with a
salvaged engine.

Is the car still running well? Any obvious oil leaks? Seriously
cracked heads allow water from the cylinder head into the cylinders
which makes a very steamy cloud from your exhaust and create so much
pressure in your cooling system that it wont even hold water anymore.

You really should have watched your oil consumption VERY carefully.
Especially since your driving a Saturn. The part about driving it for
over a thousand miles without checking the oil makes me CRINGE.

You might want to do a cylinder compression test. If you take it to a
shop, ask them how much for a full cylinder leakdown test to diagnose
problems you've noticed they might not take you for a chump and it
could result in enough information to determine the cause. Who knows,
maybe you've just got a horrible valve guide situation.
But be sure to get a quote first and totally limit what work they do.
Dont just take it to someone and tell them you dont know what the
problem is and "please fix it".

Post any additional information. We will be watching. This could be
an excellent learning experience for you, and not just the kind where
you end up getting screwed!
-WaVy

 

Setting the record straight once AGAIN!


Ok first off you have a DOHC ENGINE! NOT A SOHC engine. DOHC engines are
NOT I repeat NOT susceptible to any cracking any more than any other
average cylinderhead. Meaning you have to abuse the holy hell out of the
DOHC engine to break it. Most likely you pulled this information from
one idiots post who refuses to post actual "FACTS" because he is a
clueless irate idiot to say the very least...

Ok there are 2 common areas that you could be loosing oil.

One is very common on all four bangers and that is the PCV Valve. There
is no "oil valley" for oil to retreat to for drain off like on a V
engine. So as the valve cover builds up oil the pcv valve is almost
right in the mix. If it is faulty you can suck a lotta oil out of the
engine right quick! Cleaning it with brake clean or replacing it with an
OEM are you only 2 options.

The next area of consumtion on 1.9's are the Oil rings. They tend to
stick from oil varnish and sludge. There are ways of cleaning the oil
rings with a soak and that very often works. The entire howto can be
found at saturnfans.com forum.

Pressure test the cooling system. A cylinder leak down test will also
expose things like a bad head gasket. You will end up with coolant in
your oil not vice versa with a cracked cylinder head. You are likely
seeing something eles in your coolant.

Go elsewhere...

This is not a SOHC engine and at 100k + miles? Car companies wont hold
peoples hands for ever nor should they. Facts of life...

The head gasket goes under the head and above the cylinder block,
inbetween to create a seal. Both oil and coolent flow through it and it
also keeps the high pressures created by the cylinders contained. The
gasket will likely go before the head on this engine.

 

This is good advise. Also do not rule out the possibliblity of a
blown/leaking head gasket letting oil into coolant. If this is the
case, try retorquing the head bolts and see if it helps as sometimes
in can. One more thing, stop using 5w30 oil now as it will increase
oil consumption in a worn engine. Use no less than 10w30 and if you
are in a hot southern climate you might use 15w40 (not 10w40) as this
can reduce oil consumption a lot caused by engine wear. 5w30 can go
through a worn engine pretty quick. I do dount it is a crack in
cylinder because the oil has to be under pressure to get into oil like
a crack in oil passage that makes a path to coolant or a
defective/leaking head gasket where oil passage is to lube head.

 

Well, one of you tells me something bad and the other tells me
something good, lol...
Thanks for the suggestions though!

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that when I drove for 3 hours, I
checked the oil when I got gas halfway, and it was completely full.
Like I said, sometimes its completely random. When Im in Florida, the
only time Ive ever seen it lose oil is if I drive from Daytona to
Orlando and back (about 2 hours), and then it only loses less than a
quart. Now that Im in WV though, and mountains are part of the road,
perhaps its putting more stress on the engine and losing more at
certain times. (One time I suspected that it was the air conditioner,
but I discarded that idea)

Ok, one other thing... what color is the coolant SUPPOSED to look like?
Right now its a transparent brown color, looks pretty thick from what I
can tell...I mean if somebody were to tell me "See how the oils gotten
into there?" Id say "yep". But if some coolants are naturally that
color, then maybe its not what I think it is.

Now earlier in the year...I think January or February, I did in fact
buy a new PCV valve from Advance Auto Parts and replace the old one
that was very dirty. Im not sure which brand it was. Anyway, whenever
I check my oil, I always pull out the PCV valve and wipe it off,
because it does seem to accumulate oil on the outside of it. Is this
the PCV valve causing this? The old one was MUCH dirtier and this one
still looks very clean when I wipe it off.

Another random point that might help make some connections... sometimes
when I go to check my oil, I dont get a good reading on the dipstick...
It seems like Ill get little drips of oil on the edge of the stick, but
theres no clear line of oil on it at all. I know this isnt when its
empty because it has happened twice after Ive checked it, seen it a
little low, and then put in a half a quart. After I put in the half
quart, the dipstick didnt wanna give me a reading anymore. My dad said
this and the dirty PCV valve have something to do with "back-pressure"
in the system, causing oil to splash up the dipstick tube and up the
system into the PCV valve. Any ideas.

By the way, thanks SO much for what youve said already, its a big help.

 

As your car changes pitch oil can be tilted towards the PCV at those
times and the extra engine load does create higher oil pressure but it
still drains off the top of the engine at the same rate. PCV is still
suspect.

This is likely Bars Stop Leak that you're seeing or a muddy mix of
dexcool and green coolant. I would flush it out real good and install
dexcool and drain and fill it every 2 years.

The exterior of the pcv valve means nothing. It has a check ball that
should snap shut to prevent oil from getting by. This ball has to be
precise or oil will still get by. This is why I said OEM. Aftermarket
valves are often to sloppy for inline engines. Brake clean can flush out
the inside of the valve.

Just to be sure, you do check your oil on level ground right? It
probably wouldnt hurt to over fill just by a hair. Used to be the owners
manual said to check the oil every time you stopped for gas. I think
they might still say that. Does your oil stay within operating range
between fill ups?

 

I didnt intend to sound too dire - from reading your posts its a bit
difficult to determine just how bad the situation has become. The high
temperature situation does not sound encouraging. Does your car still
run well? Are you leaking or expelling coolant? LOOKING oily is one
thing, but a greasy froth in your coolant tank is certainly another.
I had brown coolant for a while - it looked oily but wasnt really, it
just needed to be replaced. Now nuclear glowing green, it looks much
better. And if theres a bad head situation, youre probably going to
have whitish, greasy yuck in your crankcase too.

Here's another idea: keep a log to determine exactly how many miles to
a quart you're getting. Keep it consistantly filled, but NOT
overfilled. If youre getting 1000 miles to a quart, that's bearable.
Lots of Saturns burn a quart every thousand miles. 500 miles to a
quart - probably pointing to a ring problem. Less than 200 miles to a
quart - you're really burning oil now - but killing mosquito's might be
a good thing! Time for a ring job.

Take out your spark plugs and see what shape they are in. If you are
burning oil your plugs will foul eventually and at least you'll notice
carbon build up. One plug might look worse than another - typical with
oil ring sticking.

Inconsistant oil consumption is something that has me scratching my
head. Heavier loading like mountain roads would increase oil
consumption, but the "no consumption" periods really have me stumped.
I have to wonder if you might be actually LEAKING somewhere that you
cannot see while the engine is running.

-WaVy

=========== I might be an irate idiot, but I DO have a clue!
==============

 

If he is having heating problem too it is possible that previsious
owner had over heated it a few times too and one thing you do not want
to do with a aluminum head engine is to over heat it or run low on
coolant because it is about a sure way to warp a head and blow a head
gasket and have probl;ems like he is seeing now.

 

Hey, thanks again for all the help everyone!!

First thing, no it doesnt overheat... at least according to the
temperature gauge, and from what I can tell when I open the hood (my
old car, a 95 eclipse, got WAY hotter).
And Im pretty sure the gauge does work, because when I do make the WV
to FL trip it gets to almost half way on the gauge...any other time its
only at the 1/4th mark.

Second of all, the car drives fine... theres a little rough feeling in
switching from 1st to 2nd (its manual), but I think thats just me being
crappy with a stick shift. If I take it real slow it doesnt do that at
all. And also, just to set the record straight, even though Im a
college student, Im not an aggressive driver. I pretty much never go
above 3000 rpms unless Im on the interstate in 5th gear.

Third, I always check the oil on level ground, and always after the
engine has cooled down a bit (Mostly after sitting a few hours, but
sometimes only 5 mins).

Last, I want to ask just to make sure...so the 1.9 L Twin Cam engine
does not have the cylinder head defect then? If thats true, and this
may just be a head gasket or oil ring problem, thats WONDERFUL to hear.

Anyway, Im taking it down to the Saturn service center tomorrow to get
them to check it (not to fix it). So, from what I understand here, I
should tell them that I want them to pressure test the coolant system,
and to get a "cylinder leak down test"? Is that correct?
Also, is there anything I should ask them to do about the PCV valve?

I CANNOT express how thankful I am for this thread!!

 

Oh, almost forgot...its not low on coolant either. Should the service
people flush the system? or should I worry about this after they do the
other tests?

 

You can blow the head gasket in the oil passage/cooling jacket area
and have engine still run fine. The only thing worse than oil in water
from a bad head gasket is coolant in crankcase as this is very bad and
usually fatal if not caught soon. THere is not magic fixes here is you
have oil in coolant. If retightening head bolts does not fix it, you
must pull head before it get worse and takes engine out. If the leak
variuos it can with engine temp and conditons.

 

Flushing your cooling system is so damn easy - I think you should do it
yourself!
(Rather than pay some person possibly less talented than YOURSELF three
or four times as much than it would cost for you to do it yourself!)
Oh yeah - PLEASE dont buy the pre-diluted 50/50 stuff! I'd advocate
the use of this stuff IF IT COST 50% OF THE 100% COOLANT! BUT it
REALLY burns my hide that Prestone et. al. has the nerve to charge you,
my brother or my cable-guy $4 for half a gallon of WATER! (last time I
priced antifreeze, 100% coolant was about $9 - 50/50 was about $8)

The flushing/cleaning stuff will have instructions. Basically you
open the radiator drain, collect all the liquid - then fill your system
with water, let it the engine run - repeat until you have clean water
draining from the radiator. Then you use the flushing stuff - let it
get all through the system - then wash THAT out as you did the old
coolant. Thoroughly rinse it out until totally clear again, then mix
your coolant 50/50 - and add to your system till its full.

-WaV
Trying to wipe out entropy
One Saturn at a time....

 

I agree with WaVy with the following additions.

Calgon dishwasher detergent is a good cooling system cleaner. Flush well
after any cleaning. Check for soft or cracked hoses before refilling.

There is more variability in the quality and suitability of common water
than anti-freeze coolant. Do not use tap water, mix the coolant with
distilled (best) or other deionized or RO water. I buy it from a health
food store in bulk, @$.50 / gal if I bring my own jug. Also good for
topping off non sealed batteries and my wife uses it in her steam iron.

Good luck YMMV