1997 Saturn - 2 issues

Hi, my teenager is looking at buying a 1997 Saturn 2dr that appers to be a
good deal if these issues can corrected inexpensively. It is a pivate
seller and has been sitting 6 onths while he has been on deployment. Before
taking it to a shop to get checked, I was hoping to get some guidance here.

1. The brakes are pulsing considerably and barely work. Owner states that
since the car has been sitting in a humind climate for 6 months, the rotors
have warped and will need to be changed? Sound about right or could the
master cylinder or other components cause this?

2. The service engine soon light is on. If it's like my Toyota, it means
to change the oil and can be reset manually. Is this the same thing? He
said it has been on for almost a year and the car runs fine, that his
mechanic had the machine diagnose it OK.

It's a good deal, considering these issues above, and it runs strong &
drives well. Thanks fo any advice!

 

The good folks here will give you far better detailed advice about
this car than I can ... but my first question is how much money ?
An 11-12 year old Saturn isn't worth all-that-much - but one with
problems ... maybe minor ; maybe not...
A close inspection by a good mechanic will give you some idea of the
necessary repair costs - to get it on the road.
If you have to pay a garage to do all the repairs
( $ 100 /hour ) plus parts ..
.. sometimes it's better to spend a little more up-front.
The fixer-uppers can be great for the driveway mechanics -
who know the auto-wrecker - and his kids names & birthdays ..
Good luck.
John T

 

Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to
do with humidity - it was heat buildup while braking. You can buy
replacement rotors at a NAPA or like store for about 50 bux for the
pair, but you have to install them yourself.

The SES light means that there is something amiss with the emissions
control system. It could be as simple as a loose gas cap or as complex
as a bad computer (PCM). Take it to an AutoZone and they will scan it
for free. Many other stores likely offer the same service in the hope
of selling you the parts that the scan reveals are the problem.

If you are taking it to a mechanic anyway, he will scan it, but will
likely charge you 40 to 75 bux for the scan.

I've been pretty happy with my 97 SL2 - almost 11 years old and it has
almost 200,000 miles, but still goes strong.

JimR

 

Pulsing brakes are a common problem with the SL cars. It has nothing to

Not necessarily. If the vehicle is sitting outdoors without being driven
much, rain or humidity will cause the pads in contact with the rotor to
leave some friction material on that part of the rotor. Spin the rotor, and
it looks like a bit of rust in that one location. This causes enough of a
variation in thickness to be felt as pulsation through the brake pedal.
I've had this on my Saturn before. StopTech has a whitepaper on this
behavior here: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]

 

great link, thanks

 

Thanks all. 97 sc2, $1500 OBO. 140,000 miles, new timing belt and water
pump. I'll take it to a local shop and have them check.

 

??

S-series Saturns don't have timing belts. They use timing chains. And a chain
should last a lot longer than 140K miles -- seller may be BSing you.

 

Chain not belt, but it's good that they changed it since the chain
should be changed a lot sooner than 140K miles. Some mechanics recommend
75K mile timing chain replacements on Saturns as preventative
maintenance, since there have been a lot of issues with the timing chains.

Around here, AAA has a used car evaluation service that's pretty good
but it's not cheap at $99 for members, $110 for non-members.

"http://www.csaa.com/portal/site/CSA...0VgnVCM100000c512daceRCRD&cpsextcurrchannel=1"

 

IMHO, this is completely wrong,
(provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper intervals.)

IMHO, The timing chain is NOT a preventative maintenance item,
(provided that the engine has had regular oil changes at proper intervals.)
it should last the life of the engine or at least until other major repair
is required.
If the head needs to be removed for repair of valves or rings then
replacement of the timing chain (and tensioner service or replacement) would
be advisable.

just my .02, YMMV.

 

I asked if a receipt was available and was told it was. $1700 for the chain
replacement and other work last year. It is a very young army couple, car
needs complete redo up front with brakes, I don't think they can afford it
and would rather have the cash. Taking it to a shop for a once over.

 

Say whaaat? Timing *belts* *are* preventive-maintenance items. Timing *chains*
should last the life of the [rest of the] engine.

 

I agree. Timing chain should last if oil was properly serviced at regular
intervals. On the Check Engine light, there are two known and common issues
that may cause this with Saturn SLs and they are the Coolant Temperature
Sensor (CTS) and the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve. Both are fairly
simple fixes if either is the cause after getting the code scanned at
AutoZone for free.

Bob

 

It's a common misconception. In the olden days timing chains were much
shorter and the expected "life of the car" was a lot shorter as well.
Saturn timing chains have a history of early failures. You need to go
beyond personal experience with one vehicle and get the view of a
mechanic that's worked on hundreds of vehicles. Read
"http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b"
for more information.

That said, this is all moot for the current situation since the chain
was already changed. $1500 is a pretty good deal for this car if nothing
else is seriously wrong with it.

 

Yes, because I don't have any blinders on. There seems to be a lot of
people that mistakenly think that because a chain is steel that it
somehow never needs replacement. This is untrue, steel chains wear out
in all sorts of applications, not just timing chains.

Again read
"http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/msg/4d43014a06ae4d3b".


Let's move beyond personal attacks and concentrate on reality.

 

snip

snip

IMHO
For those of you who are not regular readers of this NG it is worth noting
that Steve Scharf (SMS) is the major proponent of the Saturn timing chain
needs to be changed theory. For a more complete research into this issue I
suggest reading
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....hread/thread/a1287e3fa7a9c78/9c8657e6a0fc0675
or do a search in Google Groups for other and more recent threads.

As in all such things there is no definitive correct answer and nobody can
accurately predict the service life of an individual mechanical component.
This is especially true of preowned vehicles. Most reports of failures are
anecdotal and can be considered anomalies.

Mechanical service life is a bit of a crap shoot that is influenced by
maintenance and operating conditions and driving style. Most people lump
the SOHC and the DOHC engines together when reporting service issues such as
oil consumption and valve train wear. Engine wear increases are not linear
with speed and are normally considered to increase at the square of the
engine speed. In other words wear will be 4 times higher @ 6000rpm than at
3000rpm. DOHC engines are much more likely to be driven in a 'spirited'
manner and IMHO are much more likely to suffer issues of oil consumption and
valve train wear as well as reduced tire and brake life. For this reason
(and lower fuel economy) I would never purchase a used DOHC.

Beyond original warranty, there are no guaranties of service life and engine
lifetime management becomes a balance between doing nothing and perhaps
incurring a costly failure and overdoing preventative maintenance which
results in added expense from fixing stuff that aint broke, as well as
issues caused by the quality of the repair work. Repair work seldom has the
quality control of the original factory. Regular maintenance and oil
changes are the cheapest and most cost effective way to lengthen service
life especially when combined with proper warm up in cold weather and the
avoidance of 'spirited' high rpm operation and short trips.

As these cars age the benefits of excessive preventative repair become
smaller as does the cost of any needed repair due to catastrophic failure.
The economics of engine management is that a catastrophic failure is less of
a loss on an engine nearing the end of its service life than if it occurs
near the start. If you really want to maximize service life some would
advocate a half life rebuild including new rings bearings and valve guides,
and a new timing chain would certainly be appropriate at that time. However
most of us know that such a rebuild does not add any resale value to the car
and we prefer to continue use until some problem occurs at which time we can
make the repair or replace decision at that time.

As this model ages they are now quite common in the scrap yards and we have
more options for economical repair. A good used engine can now be purchased
for very little more than the cost of replacing a timing chain. A complete
running car with good tires and battery will only be a little more (or
less). I just purchased a very good running car with near new tires and
battery (and a new stereo/CD player )for $400. It had a little easily
repairable body damage and drives very well, I have repaired the damage but
this would have been an excellent donor car to use for spare parts. These
cars are easy to work on and a little DIY mechanical can save a LOT of
money.

Good luck, YMMV

 

Wendy, I am not a mechanic, but have owned and driven a 1998 SATURN
since 2001. I DO keep it well maintained - common "joke" is if I ever
bought a Lamborghini, I'd keep the Saturn for dependability.

I transferred from New Hampshire to Nevada in January 2005 - drove - I
believe it was 3,200 miles .. Erie, PA, Chicago, Rochester, MN .. winter
time - stopped in Deadwood, SD for 3 days, then dropped down to Casper /
Rawlins, WY - Salt Lake - Nevada .......... not ONE LICK of car
problems.

It now has 70,000 miles on it < I only drive like 100 miles a Month > ..
been to Oregon and back with it a few times, California and back alot ..
again, not a lick of problems.

I don't see where you can go wrong with purchasing it for a teenager <
I'm talking actually not seeing the vehicle ... assumed > .. the most
important factor in ANY car < even Lamborghini's > is maintenance.

My broad stroked rule of thumb is to do naturally, the regular oil
changes, and about Quarterly check a major item .. EGR Valve ....next
Quarter, brakes .. alignment the next, etc etc.

We've been getting the smoke from all the California fires, so here
shortly I'll be purchasing a new air filter as I can only imagine what
the current one looks like.

IF you do purchase the '97 and the little radiator looking light comes
on - right top light on the '98 dash - don't be alarmed like I was ... I
was on my way back from California and it came on - went straight to my
mechanic ... all's it was telling me was my engine coolant RESERVE was
1/8th of an inch low, not the radiator, the 1/2 gallon RESERVE bottle !

Can't speak for the 2007/2008's, but my '98 has treated me like GOLD.

Good Luck

 

No... It shouldn't.

Yeah it's no surprise that "mechanics" will push a needless upsale.

A lot huh? I've seen more broken timing belts before 70k than broken
timing chains before 140k on anything.

Lets make it clear that you do not and have not worked in a car shop
nor have you ever owned or worked on a Saturn in your life.